From Meal Prep to Prime Time: Brandon Rogers on Next Level Chef

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This week on Chefs Without Restaurants, host Chris Spear welcomes chef Brandon Rogers, a private chef based in the Chicago area who recently competed on Next Level Chef with Gordon Ramsay. With over 15 years of hospitality experience, from fine dining restaurants to cooking for professional athletes, Brandon shares his culinary journey and the transition into running a private chef business.

The episode dives into Brandon’s background, how he broke into the private chef world and what it's like cooking under pressure on a reality TV competition. You’ll also get behind-the-scenes insight into Next Level Chef, including his strategies for grabbing ingredients, navigating three kitchen levels and staying composed under the eyes of Richard Blais, Nyesha Arrington and Gordon Ramsay.

For those looking to transition into private work or grow their existing business, check out part 2 of our conversation over on Personal Chef Business Startup Guide.

Want more Brandon?
This is just one part of a two-part series. Head over to Personal Chef Startup Guide to hear Brandon's experience as a private chef.

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Transcript

Chris Spear: [00:00:00] This is Chris Spear and you're listening to Chefs Without Restaurants, the show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting. Hey gang, welcome back and thanks for being patient while I work through some scheduling issues on my end.

I clearly have not been consistent this past year, but it is what it is and here we are. I'd actually planned to release this episode quite some time ago, so apologies to anyone who's been waiting, especially Brandon, my guest today, I am joined by chef Brandon Rogers with more than 15 years in the hospitality industry.

He's cooked in Michelin level restaurants, worked in luxury hotels, and now runs our private chef business based in the Chicago area. You might know him from the most recent season of Next Level chef, where he competed alongside a number of talented chefs, including friend of the show and previous guest, Bobby Hicks.

In this episode, we get into Brandon's culinary background, [00:01:00] his evolution as a chef, and of course what it's like cooking on a Gordon Ramsey TV show. We talk about the fast-paced nature of the competition, the challenges of grabbing ingredients off that moving platform, and what it's really like behind the scenes.

Because I also host another podcast, personal Chef, business Startup Guide. I decided to take part of our conversation that focuses on building a private chef business and release that as a separate episode over on that podcast stream. I've never done that before, and up to this point, all those episodes had been repurposed older episodes, but my intention had always been to get new episodes over there.

So here we are. So I hope you enjoy this episode where you hear a little bit about Brandon's background and cooking on a TV show that's hosted by Gordon Ramsey. But if you really want to get into the nuts and bolts of a personal chef business, hop on over. That episode is out now and is linked in the show notes.

And as always, thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Hey Brandon, welcome to the show. Thanks so much [00:02:00] for coming on. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I'm looking forward to talking to you. Uh, you're kind of a, a food TV celebrity right now. You're currently appearing on next level chef with Chef Gordon Ramsey.

That's a pretty big deal. No, that's a huge deal. I gotta say that we're Team Bobby Hicks in my house. Just Bobby's a friend of a friend of the podcast, a personal friend. I got him on speed dial when I got a question about some stuff, but, um, you're, you're my number two. You're my number two. So is that okay?

I'll take 

Brandon Rogers: that. Hey, there's no, there's nobody better to be behind than Bobby, so I'll take that. 

Chris Spear: It's really fun though because my kids are at the age where they're enjoying watching the cooking competition. So too. My wife used to be a chef, so it's one of the shows that we every week, like get together and, and throw on and watch.

So they've, they've been having a good time as well as myself. 

Brandon Rogers: That's incredible. You know, I, I never realized how many people loved this show until afterwards, and it's kind of funny because they tell you, well, 8 million people watched the first episode of [00:03:00] last season and this, that, and the other. And it's like, that doesn't really hit you until you're actually on tv.

And like, the outpouring of love from everybody that watches the show religiously, you know what I mean? Um. They start to reach out to you and cheer you on and things like that. And it's just like, wow. 

Chris Spear: Well, and it's weird and it's chaotic and it's unlike any other cooking show out there. I think it truly is unique.

Um, yeah, absolutely. So we're gonna get to that in a little bit, but I wanna start with, you know, you as a chef when, I mean, did you always grow up loving food? And when did you think about becoming a professional chef? 

Brandon Rogers: Yeah. You know, I fell in love with food as a, at a really, really early age. You know, I always tell people that my first love was eating, and so my second love had to be cooking because I had to feed that appetite.

You know, I grew up in a family of, uh, I'm the oldest of six kids. That's a lot. Yeah. Tell me about it. And the women in my family were very, very strong [00:04:00] cooks. So, you know, I spent a lot of my time. If I wasn't outside, I was in the kitchen and, and trying to learn. Um, and it's really funny, I was in charge of making sure that all of my siblings and I got out, got to school on time, you know, and my little sister, Ashley, she's a huge foodie as well.

So, you know, as soon as my mom would leave to go to work, I'd be in the kitchen or we'd be both be in the kitchen, her telling me what to cook and I'd be in there just. Frying chicken, if you will, before we go to elementary school. So I could definitely say that the love for food, it started at a really, really early age.

Chris Spear: You know, I self-describe as a little fat kid, you know, a lot, a lot of people like to eat. Oh yeah. But they don't always turn that into something professional. In fact, you know, I think when I was coming up, a lot of people discouraged me from doing it professionally because you know, it's a hard industry.

There's a lot of hard industries. Absolutely. But I think. You know, historically it's a hard one, but I, um, you know, pushed against that and it's something that I did. Uh, you went to culinary school and, and jumped right [00:05:00] into the culinary field. So when you got out of school, where did you start? What were you doing?

Brandon Rogers: Well, funny story, I actually, it took me a while to even get into the food industry. You know, I worked in hospitality, um, but when it came to being a, a chef. I went to culinary school. I started back in 2019, so before that I worked in event management. I was on the front end of the hospitality industry, planning social and corporate events.

I've worked in luxury hotels. I've worked for McCormick Place. I used to work in law firms and just planning all of their events, whether it was galas, conferences, conventions. And then I was in between jobs one day and I decided that if I didn't. I was actually having a conversation with one of my best friends and, you know, he was always telling me like, oh, you're so amazing at cooking.

Why are you not making money cooking? And, you know, I, I just kind of was like, well, if I don't go to culinary [00:06:00] school, if I don't at least try, you know, that's something that I would regret, regret for the rest of my life. And I decided to go to culinary school, started working in a few different restaurants through my journey in culinary school.

Know, I remember I was working at an Indian fine dining restaurant and one of my good friends, Brandon, um, I was on the train ride home, it was Dali weekend, so we were working like 15, 16 hour days. Man, it was, it was brutal. And I remember I was on the train. Two in the morning going home and I could barely like stand up.

I was so exhausted. And he got on the train and he was like, I just started with this private chef startup. Why don't you come interview there? And that's how I got into the private chef industry. 

Chris Spear: This is a great transition. I think because we're talking kind of marketing and social media. Yeah. I guess along with that comes being on a television show, so, uh, and I'm, you know, I'm assuming [00:07:00] you have already seen a bump in people who are interested in you, what you do, following you online, and maybe that'll continue to grow.

But let's, let's talk about this next level, chef. What was it like when you found out you were gonna be on the show? 

Brandon Rogers: You know, it's actually really, really funny. So, throughout the process, they actually contacted me. I had done an interview for, or a separate show. So. When I was contacted about Next Level Chef, they had found me, and I don't think my presence was that big on social media at the time, but when they contacted me, I literally thought it was a scam.

I was like, why would they be contacting me? I mean, out of everybody. But the more that I talked to the, the casting producers and all of that, I started to feel a lot more comfortable. And luckily that was the case because I went through the audition process and I think that I was actually in a hotel.

When I did my audition, and it's like a Zoom interview, if you will, and they have requirements that [00:08:00] your camera has to be set up a certain type of way. There has to be a certain amount of lighting and this, that and the other. And, um, you know, for me, uh, none of that stuff was set up really. So, uh, luckily my casting producer was really, really cool.

He got me up to speed, helped me figure it all out, and we recorded a really, really cool. Casting video, video, um, made me feel very, very comfortable. And so, yeah, after that they send it over to the network and then if they hear something back from the network, they'll let us know. Otherwise, you know, I guess it's safe to assume that you're not gonna be on the show.

And I was being contacted maybe like once a month or something like that, just, just making sure that I was still interested, but then also just letting me know that they have seen some interests and things like that. 

Chris Spear: Was it hard waiting? 'cause I know it was a long time ago that you filmed the show. Like is it really tough to, like, you're done, you come home and now you're just like sitting, waiting for this show to air?

Brandon Rogers: Yeah. You know, the filming, we [00:09:00] filmed the show over the course of like a month and. You know, it was a whole year that we had to wait before we could ever even tell anybody, which was probably one of the hardest things that I've had to do in my entire life. You know, because you, it's like you have this secret, this burning secret, and you just want to tell everybody and you can't tell anyone.

So it's like, for me, I just had to keep my head down and just work knowing that, you know, I had this on the forefront or approaching and just waiting to know when we could tell everybody. So. Yeah, when you, when when they finally give you the go ahead that you are okay to tell everybody that you're gonna be on the show.

It's like the biggest, that the, the greatest feeling ever. You know? 

Chris Spear: So for people who maybe have never seen this or don't know the concept, can you give them the quick description of how the show works? Because it is so different than a traditional, I mean, kind of like maybe like a top chef, except that you have moving platforms.

Three different types of kitchens. One kind [00:10:00] of skanky, I mean, I don't know how you describe it. One that looks like your normal kitchen that almost everyone's worked in and then the like Michelin star kitchen. 

Brandon Rogers: Yeah. Um, so the premise of the show, it is Gordon Ramsey's show and there are three different levels and each level has its own kitchen.

It's supposed to signify Gordon Ramsey's journey. Through the restaurant industry. So, you know, down in the basement it's like you have the bottom of the barrel equipment, uh, the worst of the worst. And then as you move up in the ranks, um, the middle kitchen is supposed to be like your, your average commercial kitchen.

Um, and then that top level, like you said, is that Michelin starred kitchen, um, the best of the best equipment is up there. I think that there's supposed to be an intimidation factor, if you will, from like the basement level kitchen. And it's kind of funny because a lot of US chefs found like peace and solace down in the basement.

Um, just because you start to [00:11:00] recognize the, the, the great qualities of the basement for what they are, you know, it allows you to be a little bit more rustic in your approach. You know, it doesn't have like your blenders or your food processors down there, so you don't have to focus on making, you know.

That Michelin quality dish, you know, it could you focus on making sure that it's a great tasting product? 

Chris Spear: Well, I've always said that, um, you know, I think a lot of times some things in fine dining are almost like a crutch. Like sure, you can make Wagyu steak delicious and using caviar and all that, and you've got all this fancy equipment, but like.

Take all the fancy equipment away, take all the high end ingredients away and you can see what a chef can do. Like can you take a pig's head and make it a delicious dish? And I think the great thing is we've seen so many chefs on this show this season, really taking those. Those items from the basement.

Sometimes nice things sneak by, like, you'll get some scallops in the basement, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when you get the weird stuff down there and you've gotta make [00:12:00] that into a star dish. And we've seen that a, a good couple times a season. And, um, you know, I, it's, it's a really interesting concept to me.

Brandon Rogers: Next level Chef does a great job of throwing you some curve balls, especially when you're down in the basement and you're right. You know, it's, it's being able to take those humble ingredients and really transform it into a star quality dish. And you know, I think that a lot of people don't necessarily recognize the amount of discipline and restraint that you need to have as a chef once you start going up in those higher levels because.

Once you're up there, you know the expectation is not only greater, but you know, someone, let's say like myself, who is turned on by new gadgets and appliances and things like that, you know? The, the, the amount of items and, and gadgets and stuff that's up there can really get the best of you if you allow it to, because you just want to try everything.

You wanna impress the judges. Um, so if you're not able to kind of hone that [00:13:00] in and really be more disciplined in your approach, then you're not gonna be successful up there. 

Chris Spear: Well, I think, you know, it was, uh, maybe two weeks ago, the chef had like that little hibachi grill and I think that kind of like did her in there.

Right. Because how many pe I've never used one of those with the bench tank. Yeah. Charcoal or whatever. Like yeah, I know how to throw something on a regular gas grill in a kitchen. Absolutely. But give me one of those fancy tabletop grills. It's like, I don't know how the heat's regulated, what the temp is and Yep.

We've seen those, those things that kind of undo the successes of chefs because you know, absolutely. They're maybe not familiar with that fancy stuff. 

Brandon Rogers: It's really, really cool too. 'cause when you think about it, I mean, if you think about how small that box grill is, but then you're putting a product like Tuan in there, which is literally the highest or the, it's the hottest burning charcoal that on earth, you know?

And so you only need a few pieces in there, and the heat is out of this world. And if you're not ready to that for that, [00:14:00] then again you're gonna ruin your product. Um, so again, if it's. A lot of the items that are up there. Yeah. It's like shiny new toys. You know what I mean? But if you don't have the, the experience or if you don't have the amount of restraint and discipline that it, that it takes to succeed up there, good luck.

Chris Spear: So we're probably like six weeks into the show being on. So, um, you know, we can't get into how it all works out for you and some of the things coming, but we have enough basis there. One, one of the things was, um, you know, you had to go into a final challenge, even though you did really well, you're. Chef, uh, Richard Blaze there decided his strategy early on was gonna be to put the good chefs in to go up against the other team.

Did that make you nervous knowing that you had done really well, um, but then you were still gonna have to be put to the test one-on-one, you know? 

Brandon Rogers: No, it didn't. You know, I think that you, you know, chef Blaze had let us know ahead of, you know, beforehand [00:15:00] that like, when your name is called, just be ready to go.

You know, I looked at it from like an athletic standpoint, you know what I mean? It's like each one of us as chefs were, were like, put me in coach. I'm ready. You know, so I think that you could really tell on my face in that episode, I knew it was gonna be me and I wanted it to be me. I was so ready. Um, and again, I, it's a, it's a mindset thing.

You know, if you, if you allow yourself to focus on the fact that like. I'm going in to the elimination instead of being like, you know what? This is my chance that I get to cook. You're, you're gonna get swallowed whole. You know what I mean? I was ready. I was hungry. So, 

Chris Spear: hey, just a quick break here to let you know that if you're really interested in the business side of being a personal or private chef, there's a whole other part of this conversation over on my other podcast, personal Chef, business Startup Guide.

That's where Brandon and I dive deep into how he structures his services, finds clients, and manages high level meal prep for [00:16:00] athletes and busy professionals. If you're building a personal chef business, go check it out. The episode is live now. I was glad that he chose me. Did you ever grab anything that you wish you didn't like?

You just reach and blindly grab something and then you're like, oh, crap. Is that something that happens? I imagine whether it's you or someone else, at some point someone's just snatched something off there that they were not fond of. 

Brandon Rodgers: All the time, you know? But at the same time too, I kind of had this strategy that, um, you know, I didn't wanna focus on trying to put things back, if you will.

You know, I, if you notice, like in the beginning, um, I kind of just like stood in one spot and was just grabbing what was around me. And then. And then once, let's say we got to like episode three and four, you actually start seeing me move all around the platform just to see what was there, because I felt like I was gonna be able to get like a better grab.

And then like maybe sauces and oils might be on one side and then your fresh herbs and all of that might be on [00:17:00] another side or whatever the case may be. But in order to build a more cohesive dish, I felt like the opportunity. To do that would be way greater if I was able to, you know, man, maneuver around the platform as opposed to just standing in one spot.

You're also a big guy. Long, long arms and stuff too, right? Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely. You know, the, the, the ramen challenge where the platform didn't stop. Not a problem. No. I got at least like, what, five more seconds going up and five more seconds going down with these long arms. So, you know, just, you gotta be able to use what you got in order to get to where you wanna be.

Um, and I, I if you notice in one of the episodes, um, one of the contestants had grabbed something and then they noticed that there was something else on the platform that they would rather have that was a better protein. After, you know, the platform started moving and you look down and you only have like two ingredients, you know?

So it's like I, I told myself that once I pick something, I'm gonna stick with that and just keep [00:18:00] going. Just keep going. And I think that that strategy proved to work pretty well for me. 

Chris Spear: What's it like having all, how many cameras are there, give or take, like, you know, 'cause we don't see any of that, is it?

I'm assuming a huge thing and they're like literally everywhere. 

Brandon Rodgers: Uh, honestly, they are literally everywhere like I was looking. You know, they're in the ceiling, they're on the walls, you know, they're, if, to be honest with you, um, it the really, really cool aspect about it. I was fascinated with the whole TV side because I'm like, there's so many cameras doing so many things that I've never seen before.

You know what I mean? But like, as soon as they told us like, it's time to cook, I didn't see a camera. There were actually cameramen that were walking around as well to kind of get closer shots while we were cooking. And you know, I, I don't know, like as soon as they were like 3, 2, 1, go, I didn't see anything except for the fire and the food that was in front of me.[00:19:00] 

Chris Spear: Just gotta keep your head down and get to it, right? Yeah. 

Brandon Rodgers: You know, and it's.

Chef Blaze, I followed his career, you know, from Top Chef all the way now to next level chefs. Same with Chef Arrington. And you know, all of us have so much respect for Gordon Ramsey as well. It's like when you're cooking and they come up to you trying to have a conversation with you, it's like impossible not to start fangirling, you know?

So, um, just allowing that to not throw you off of your game and shift your focus, um, is a challenge within itself outside of all of the cameras as well, so. 

Chris Spear: I imagine that's a huge, immense pressure. I mean, I always, you know, always to some extent get nervous just cooking for people, but one being on tv, but you've got those three chefs in front of you.

I, I can't imagine putting up plates for them. Yeah. Especially Chef Ramsey. He seems a little intimidating, although he seems nice on this show in particular. Yeah, well it's actually really [00:20:00] funny. Like 

Brandon Rodgers: I remember during the professional chef auditions, um, you know, after that first round of cooking. We get in the elevator and he turns around and he is like, you guys need to get your heads outta your asses.

Let's go. And I remember just thinking, you know, before I left to go on the show, I was like, oh God, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And Chef Ramzi starts yelling in my face, or you know, cursing me out, and I get in the elevator. I'm like, wow. He just cursed at. That's so cool. Check that 

Chris Spear: off the bucket list.

All right. He was just in my city like two weeks ago, I guess. There he's doing a new show, some like restaurant like renovation kind of thing. Not like kitchen nightmares. Okay. But we didn't even know about it. Yeah. And they like completely put like a tent up around this restaurant and shut down for a week.

And then all, you know, I had a little FOMO on Instagram saying all these people tag him like I was at Sheets and Gordon Ramsey was like, you know, out there at the gas station. Oh. Gordon Ramsey was walking around downtown, like he was like. From where I [00:21:00] live and I didn't get even see him.

Brandon Rodgers: Shows just the variety of different shows that they're able to come up with and he does. It's, it's absolutely incredible. I mean, I don't even know when that man finds time to sleep. You know what I mean? The, the, the amount of things that he has coming on. He has team like 

Chris Spear: you and I. He has a tea. That's right.

Right. It's like that's the missing puzzle piece. A hundred percent. What did you learn about yourself through this process? Like did you, do you feel like you became a better chef and just like personal and professional growth from the whole experience? 

Brandon Rodgers: Absolutely. You know, I think that, um, one of the coolest things about the show within itself is the, the, um, the relationships that I was able to build with the other contestants.

You know, these are like family members that I'll have for the rest of my life. Um, and the amount of support that we all give to each other, it's just so infectious. It's amazing. Um, but it's definitely made me a better chef. [00:22:00] You know, it's you as a private chef, you know. Or, or even working in event management, you recognize that there is always an opportunity for something to go wrong.

So you always have to be thinking on your toes or, or just ready to pivot. And, you know, doing this on TV as well. It's, it's that times a hundred, you know, that times a thousand even sometimes. And, you know, it just, it, it sets you up in the minds with the mindset that like, it doesn't matter what's being thrown your way, you're going to get through it and you're gonna succeed.

Um, I can definitely say the show has made me a better chef. I think the chef that I was a year ago compared to what I am now, is it's, it, it's like night and day. So I'm, I'm extremely grateful for the show. 

Chris Spear: So it sounds like you recommend this if someone has the opportunity to go on a show, do you say go all in?

Absolutely. You 

Brandon Rodgers: know that you only live once at the end of the day and you ultimately don't know. What this will do for your career [00:23:00] and just being able to have a conversation with some of these chefs that are out there and making themselves vulnerable and succeeding at some of the highest levels. I mean, that's, that's what we all as chefs hope for, you know, to be able to rub elbows, if you will, with these types of people and have conversations with them or speak, seek guidance, you know, and you never know, you know, when you're, when you're put into a situation where you're uncomfortable.

You know, that's a lot of times when you do your best work, so imagine being pushed into doing TV where you ought have no idea what's going on. You have no idea what's coming next. You're just forced to react. I 

Chris Spear: think people don't like being like looking bad or being embarrassed. I think the thing holding people back is going on the show.

It's a new experience, a new environment, and just like, I'm gonna go on and forget something and just look like an idiot, right? Like, I'm gonna serve raw fish, or I'm not gonna know how to bone out a chicken or [00:24:00] something like that. 

You know, they're there to support you in every way possible and really bring out the best chef that they possibly can in you. Um, and you know, again, people make mistakes. You have, we have, you know, professional chefs that were on the show that have cut themselves. You know what I mean? And, and at the end of the day it's like this is such a unique show.

Like the where are you ever going to run up to a platform, have 30 seconds to pick all of the ingredients to make a cohesive dish, and then turn around and try to come up with that dish in the moment and, and have 20 minutes to cook it? You're not. So I think that you just have to, you have to allow yourself to know.

That you may make mistakes and it's okay. You know, it's not [00:25:00] about the mistake itself, it's how you come away from that mistake or you pivot and, and move forward. Um, and that's the what's most important. 

Chris Spear: Well, I'm trying to make you, you know, as a podcast producer and host, I'm gonna try and make you sound good.

You know, it's the same thing, like, I'm gonna listen to this thing, and it's like. Oh, this was a little weird or awkward or something and this needs to get cut. Like there's been times I've listened to episodes, I'm like, this is kind of boring, or it's not good. And then, then I get it done. I'm like, oh, I'm kind of happy.

Like I wish people could hear the unedited version 'cause I did good. You know, it's like. Always before the commercial break, there's some chaos. Like they create tension. I think that's a good thing about like producing and storytelling. It's like, oh, they made it look like she's gonna put up this raw chicken, or they missed the platform.

And then you're holding for like two minutes during the commercial. Like, oh man, she didn't make it. And then it comes back. And of course she made the platform or right, of course the chicken got cooked in time. They're creating that, that tension. And it's absolutely always, always, right before the commercial break, that's, that's good TV producing right there.

Brandon Rogers: I absolutely agree, you know.[00:26:00] 

Keeping you on the edge of your seat, then like what are we doing? You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Like that's what everybody watches TV for that reason. And you know, I think that one of the greatest things about Next Level Chef is that, you know, their focus isn't on the drama. You know, there's a lot of TV shows out there, or even cooking shows that really, really love.

The dramatic aspect of it, and next level Chef isn't about that. You know, next level chef is about the food and literally the sport in which we're running over to a platform. Choosing all of those ingredients and being able to create magic within the allotted amount of time. So 

Chris Spear: yeah, we love it. What do you have for final words for our listeners today?

Anything, whether it be personal chef, private chef, tv, chef, any of it. What do you wanna leave everyone with? 

Brandon Rogers: I think that it's for me, you know, one of, one of the things that I'm [00:27:00] most gracious for is the fact that I made the decision to really just follow my dreams. You know that I think that today, no better day than to do what it is that you love or really find what it is that you love.

And move forward in that direction. Um, you know, I think that there have been times where I've been in the kitchen for damn near 24 hours and you would never be able to tell the next day because I don't feel like I've worked, you know, I'm in my happy place and I can't tell you how different of a person I am when I feel like I'm living in my purpose.

As opposed to going to work and being somewhere that I don't wanna be every day. You know, I think that there is some truth behind it being extremely difficult to get into the industry. There's anything that I can ever do to help anybody. Don't be afraid to reach out to me. You know, I wanna see everybody succeed.

Chris Spear: I love that. I hope everyone as [00:28:00] much as possible can, you know, follow their dreams and do something they love. I love what I do. You clearly are loving what you do. So what a way to live life. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on the show. It's been great talking to you. Thank you for having me. And, uh, to all of our listeners, uh, as always has been Chris with Chefs Without Restaurants.

Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Thank you. You're still here. The podcast's over if you are indeed. Still here. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place, and that's chefs without restaurants.org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter, get connected in our free Facebook group, and join our personal Chef Catering and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads.

And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page where you'll find products and services I love you. Pay nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission, which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links.

As always, you can reach [00:29:00] out to me on Instagram at Chefs Without Restaurants, or send me an email at Chefs Without restaurants@gmail.com. Thanks so much.