Behind the Bar with Kara Newman: Spirits, Cocktail Trends and Home Bars

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In this episode of Chefs Without Restaurants, host Chris Spear is joined by spirits expert and acclaimed author Kara Newman. Known for her extensive work as a spirits journalist and for writing innovative cocktail books, Kara shares how she made the leap from writing about pork belly futures to becoming a leading voice in the world of spirits and cocktails.

They discuss everything from oddball cocktail creations, like a sour cream and onion martini and pot liquor ice cubes, to larger industry trends such as the resurgence of martinis, non-alcoholic beverages, and the use of upcycled ingredients like spent coffee grounds. Kara also talks about her latest venture, The Cocktail Cabinet, a collection of recipe card decks designed to inspire home bartenders.

Whether you're new to mixology or a seasoned drink maker, this episode delivers great insights and practical advice on how to elevate your cocktail game at home.

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Transcript

Chris Spear: [00:00:00] What's the weirdest cocktail you've ever had? I once created potlikker ice cubes, and used them to make a dirty gin martini for our guest, Kara Newman. She recently had a sour cream and onion martini, served with a side of potato chips. But today's show isn't just about weird beverages. I'm sitting down with one of my favorite people in the beverage industry today.

We're talking cocktail trends, home bars, and more. This is Chris Spear and you're listening to Chefs Without Restaurants. The show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting. I have 32 years of working in kitchens but not restaurants and operate a personal chef service called Perfect Little Bites during dinner parties in the Washington DC area.

Today's guest is Kara Newman. She's a renowned spirits journalist, author of several cocktail books, and someone I've had the pleasure of knowing for a number of years. I first met her in 2013 at the Star Chef's Congress where we were learning how to [00:01:00] pimp our grits. Since then, I've read many of her articles, had the pleasure of attending cocktail events with her, and have made literally dozens of cocktails from her books.

I. I've definitely seen firsthand how passionate Kara is about drinks, spirits, and all the people involved in the process from distillers to bartenders. So in this episode we talk about the evolving cocktail scene, some of the more bizarre and surprisingly good drinks that we've both encountered. We discuss upcycled ingredients like making coffee liqueur from spent coffee grounds.

We touch on non-alcoholic cocktails. Of course, I wanted to get her take on how to build a better bar at home. So please check out the show notes to find more info about Kara, including the cocktail cabinet, a series of cocktail recipe decks she's recently released. She'll be talking about that on the show.

And if you work as a personal or private chef or do small scale catering, please check out my other show, personal Chef Business Startup Guide. It's your one stop for [00:02:00] learning how to build and grow your personal chef business. All right, let's get to it. Thanks so much for listening, and have a great week.

Hey Carol, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. 

Kara Newman: Hey Chris. Good to see you. 

Chris Spear: Yeah, good to see you. It's been years. I was trying to think, it's probably been like six years since we actually saw each other. 'cause there's that whole five year pandemic window and it was before that. 

Kara Newman: Oh yeah. Yeah. I think probably the last time I saw you might've been in Baltimore when I was touring for Nightcap, maybe.

Chris Spear: That's right. Yes. That's a great book. It's really funny. I watch a lot of eighties and nineties movies with my kids, and there there's a discussion about Nightcaps a lot more than I think you're in modern movies, right? Like you're on a date, you walk the girl home and it's like, Hey, do you wanna come up for a nightcap?

And I just think it's so funny because like, I don't know, is that something people still actually talk about in that way anymore? I 

Kara Newman: don't think anyone ever really used that, that, uh, phrase that, that line in real life. I'm sorry. I mean, maybe in the sixties, maybe. No. [00:03:00] 

Chris Spear: You've been writing about spirits for so long now.

I kind of just wanna start with a little background. How did you get into that? 

Kara Newman: I've always been a journalist. I'm a career career journalist. Uh, but the topics I've written about have changed over time and I originally started writing about financial topics. I was writing about stocks and bonds and for a while, agricultural commodities and something in the, uh, the pork belly frozen orange juice futures universe has sort of activated something in my brain and I realized I'd rather be talking about, uh, you know, the, the food and, you know, cooking, you know, what, what chefs we're doing with, with bacon rather than writing about pork belly futures, which no longer trade anyway.

That was kind of a long and slippery slide into writing about spirits and cocktails, which at the time was really just opening up. It was the whole new cocktail Renaissance and craft distilleries were opening at a really fast clip, and there was just so much more to write about [00:04:00] it. Was this really this exciting new world?

Chris Spear: Do you remember the first piece you wrote about spirits and cocktails? 

Kara Newman: Um, I think it was a piece I did for, for wine enthusiasts when I first started writing for them. Pairing with candy and it was wine, spirits. I remember it was sort of eyeopening to. Pair, I think it was caramels with bourbon and actually that wound into a really brief in-person event at a, a wine shop called Bottle Rocket here in New York.

And for a while I was the wine witch. I'm saying air quotes, the wine witch. And I had a big old hat and you know, people would come in with their kids and I'd give the kids candy and the parents. A poor, a bourbon. And that was, that was a fun gig for a while, 

Chris Spear: which is so interesting. 'cause you see that more and more these days, like I've been to distilleries that will have like a candy pairing or a candy shop will work with a local distillery to do pairing.

So I think that candy and spirits thing, um, seems a little more [00:05:00] common. So like maybe you were a trailblazer back then. 

Kara Newman: I'll, I'll take credit for it. I don't, I'm certainly not the first one who ever came up with it, but it was kind of fun to look back and say, yeah, I was pairing Twizzlers and Red Vines with vodka and you know, caramels with bourbon and, alright.

It's, it's fun. It's all just fun. 

Chris Spear: So to kind of get to know you a little bit, if someone wanted to get to know you through, let's say, three cocktails, what are three cocktails that you love that would give maybe a little insight into who you are? 

Kara Newman: I would say probably the martini is one, uh, because it's such a personal drink for, for everyone, and it's one that I've been thinking a lot about lately and my, my personal martini preference these days is a very wet martini with a lot of vermouth and a twist instead of a lemon.

I'd say probably the second drink would possibly be a [00:06:00] Negroni because I have such an affection for equal parts drinks and bitter drinks are just lovely in, in general. And you know, it's one of those great acid test drinks. You go into any bar and you'll say, I'll have a Negroni to see what they do with it.

It's a hard drink to ruin, and if they ruin it, it's a good sign to get outta there fast. 

Chris Spear: Agreed. 

Kara Newman: And the third drink. I'm going to go in a different direction with that. I would say probably whatever the weirdest drink on the menu is. That's really one of my, my rabbit holes right now. If I see something really bizarre on the menu, it's like, okay, let's go right for that one.

Chris Spear: So what's a bizarre drink you've had recently or something that you can think of? Is there anything that comes to mind? 

Kara Newman: Probably one of the weirdest I've had recently was a sour cream and onion martini at the corner store. At heart, it was sort of, you know, like Martini Meats Gibson, and it was, um, a sour cream washed gin and it was infused [00:07:00] with chives and dill and had a bit of raininess, I believe in the.

In the mix. And I served with a, a little silver dish of sour cream and I knew potato chips. It was, it was fun. It worked. 

Chris Spear: You're my kind of people. That sounds like something I would go for. I don't know if we've ever talked about, have you ever heard about my, um, potluck or ice cubes, like if we talked about this before?

No. And 

Kara Newman: please tell me more. 

Chris Spear: Yeah, well, um, you know, I made a big pot of, um, greens and then you have all this pot liquor, and I had actually done an event, so we had made it in a giant like steam jacketed kettle for 200 people. And we had so much of it left over and I was like. You know, it's great. It's got, um, there was some pork in there, so you've got like the smoky, the salty.

I put brown sugar in there. I put like hot sauce in there. I was like, well, what are we gonna do with all this? So I just took some of it and was like, well, what if we made ice cubes and then stir it to make like a dirty martini on? Um, and I, I posted it on Twitter way back when we were still doing the Twitter thing.

Um, and Kat Kinsman retweeted it. And then John t Edge saw it and was [00:08:00] like, can I write about this in Oxford American? Which was like mind blowing. 'cause I had never been in any kind of publication in any sort at that time. He is like, yeah, I'll, I'm writing an article about pot liquor and all these chefs doing cool things like do you want to be referenced in this?

Which was a really cool experience for me. So, um, it's not on my go-to rotation, but maybe it should be. Um, so basically just taking pot liquor and, you know, I like to throw it in the fridge overnight. And then kind of strain off some of the fat. Um, but then just make ice cubes and then do a quick stir with, you know, whatever your go-to is if you're doing gin or vodka, and then strain it out.

And that's a pretty good base for a martini. 

Kara Newman: That's such a brilliant idea. Yeah. I could even see that in a drink where you're not straining it out, you know? Mm-hmm. It just sort of melts and trans worms. The drink you like, like a savory. I mean, people do martinis on the rocks too, but like a savory whiskey drink maybe.

Chris Spear: Yeah. I dunno. I'll have to play around with that. I think that's worth going back to. It's in my website from like 15 years ago. I probably need to visit the archives and read my notes and give it a go and let you know it'll work. Yeah, I bet. See the 

Kara Newman: funky rum that [00:09:00] has some salinity to it. That'd be really fun.

Oh, I like 

Chris Spear: that. Do you, are you all about, um, this adding like saline to your cocktails? I know that's something I'm seeing more and more. Are you a fan of like adding a little salt water? 

Kara Newman: A little, not a lot. I'm actually very much over the entire savory martini trend. I feel like it has gone way too far, you know, with MSG martinis and, and the like, you know, it was fun for a while, but it's starting to feel a bit like a, like a crutch, you know?

It's, it's everywhere. Too much dirty martini. Too much savory. 

Chris Spear: Well, you know, I really wanna kind of start by hearing about what you're excited about right now and what you're into. I have a bunch of questions, but trends you're looking at, projects you're working on and things you're excited about. 

Kara Newman: I mean, I don't mean to completely harsh anyone's mellow about the the martini 'cause I'm still, it's still something.

I'm still very much, it's still very much on my mind because when I came out of the, the whole pandemic. Height of the pandemic years. That was my, my comfort drink. You know, I, I went [00:10:00] for a martini above all, anything else, you know, so you know what you're gonna get. And, uh, for a while I drifted away from that into my, you know, weirdest, weirdest drinks ever phase.

And I feel like lately I'm, I'm getting excited about the martini again. That there are just so many ways to do it well and present it in interesting ways. Um, I. Trays and carts and trees with little minis hung all over them, and I'm kind of excited by that. You know, I like these different formats given to a really classic drink.

Chris Spear: Do you have a favorite mix of spirits in vermouth for it? Like go-to brands, like for you, if there was an iconic or just a favorite, if you were gonna pick the, the bottles you're mixing. 

Kara Newman: Oh, interesting. I guess it depends where I am and who's picking up the check. Oh, 

Chris Spear: if it's okay, yeah, sure. Yeah. 

Kara Newman: If I don't know what I'm getting into, I'll just ask for, you know, tanker array.

And if it's someplace where I see maybe Fords on the back bar, I'll probably go for that. And if it's on somebody [00:11:00] else's tab, um, these days I'm liking Monkey 47, but it's an expensive pour. Yeah, yeah. 

Chris Spear: Well, and it's hard, like, I guess balancing the same way, like I love, uh, Manhattan. Balancing a really interesting whiskey with an interesting vermouth.

Like sometimes there's too much at play. And I'm sure you can get into that too, if you're getting like a really good vermouth, whatever that means. Or like a really good gin, like the interplay of all the botanicals. 'cause I can see a point where you probably have too much going on between the two spirits.

Kara Newman: Right. And I mean, in terms of the VER component, I. I feel like I can't go wrong with Dolan Drer blanc. I really like the loose style sherry based vermouths too. And if you dig a saline, you know, a little saline touch, you probably would really enjoy it. 

Chris Spear: Um, I wanna talk a little bit about. Improvements for home bars and cocktail making For maybe the listeners out there who are, I don't know, newish or kind of [00:12:00] shy to this, what are some tips you have to maybe stocking a bar?

And the sub-question for that is like, I'd like to know what are some really, maybe not really, but interesting things people could add to their bar that they haven't thought about. Like I'm thinking of like a Chino or like a Ancho Reyes or something. Like what's something you could add to your bar that's.

Pretty, um, you know, you can use it in a lot of drinks, but maybe people aren't used to seeing. 

Kara Newman: Um, if I could pick one bottle above the, the usual, I, I suppose the basic, someone would probably have would be, you know, a, a gin, a whiskey, probably, um, a modifier, like a Campari. I would probably want someone to have really good vermouth.

I think that elevates a lot of drinks and people don't think about it. And of course, once you open it, it's gotta go in the fridge. That's also something you, I, I think a lot of people may be, maybe I'm underestimating what people know these days, but I still feel like people open it and [00:13:00] leave it on the counter if they don't use it quickly and then it comes back, they come back to it and it's oxide.

They're like, what is this? 

Chris Spear: My mom's drink was a Manhattan, and she always kept the cheapest, uh, sweet vermouth, uh, in the cabinet, uh, with our, you know, pantry staples. And I never saw vermouth refrigerated in my house. And that was one of the first things I learned when I started learning about cocktails was like, oh, okay.

Uh, that, that's a quick upgrade. 

Kara Newman: I would probably also add to someone's, uh, wishlist, maybe a. Coffee liqueur. Um, I've been enjoying Mr. Black recently, and I'm finding that it's really nice with a, a bit dashed into Manhattans or anything with a, with a whiskey component. Um, I'm not really a huge fan of espresso martinis.

You know, I, I don't, I don't hate them, but it's not something I would ever make for myself at home, and it's not really something I order, but a really simple. Whiskey. Um, nice glass, nice ice. Also of [00:14:00] good things to, to have I'd, I'd recommend someone get a good silicone ice tray and, you know, make attractive big cubes.

And then like a little, a little splash of, of coffee liqueur along with your sweet vermouth and, and whiskey and a nice little upgrade. I think, 

Chris Spear: you know, one of the things I've been making is, um, making my own coffee liqueur at home using spent coffee grounds. Have you seen this before? 

Kara Newman: Ooh, no. Tell me more.

Chris Spear: There's a place in London called Silo. Um, it's a chef who's like zero waste and he's affiliated with this company. Have you heard of, is it discarded spirits? Do you know anything about them? They use discarded I've products. Yeah, but like they make like a banana peel lur or something using old banana peels.

Um, but they have a recipe on their website. Maybe their Instagram, basically where you're taking like the spent coffee grounds and then adding water and your own simple syrup and a base spirit. And it's a great way to use the coffee grounds, especially if you already buy good coffee, um, and make it at [00:15:00] home.

I. And the nice thing is you can adjust the sugar. Like sometimes they're a little overly sweet for me. Or sometimes you want a different base spirit. Like if I'm intending to use it in a tequila drink, well then I'll use like a re podo tequila as the base for my coffee liqueur. Or sometimes I'll use a bourbon, um, and it's something that I can just make micro batches of.

So just make like five ounces a week if I want, and just change the sugar ratios and the base spirit, and that's kind of fun. 

Kara Newman: Okay, I've got a good resource for your listeners if they wanna go that route. Um, I did, uh, a story for, for wine enthusiast, our cocktail of the month for the climate issue, uh, which just came out now, or it's coming out like any minute now.

Um, I did a cocktail of the month featuring, um. Bartender, Renato Tinelli. He goes by the sustainable bartender. Um, he's also the beverage director at Dante here in New York, which is, you know, more, more high-end. But apparently his pandemic project [00:16:00] was, uh, taking all kinds of ingredients and turning them into upcycled cocktails.

And for the, the issue, I took his, uh, banana peel oleo saccharum. And that became the banana ma Thai. And just really, you know, an interesting approach. I mean, banana peels, not just the banana, the banana peels, and it's, it's delicious. 

Chris Spear: I love that kind of stuff. I'm really interested in upcycling. And then, you know, going back to like the interesting cocktails, it's a, a way to make something kind of unique, but I think anytime you're eliminating waste and using it in a creative way, I think that's, that's fun.

Kara Newman: I agree. I agree. 

Chris Spear: Any trends you'd like to see disappear? I mean, not to be a hater, but, uh, I'm 

Kara Newman: sure there's a few Oh, but 

Chris Spear: so much fun. Yeah. There's so much. It's so much fun. Um, what are you kind of over. 

Kara Newman: Let's see. I still wanna see the, the really, really super, super savory drinks [00:17:00] go away. You know, I'm, I'm done.

Like, you know, b we're, we're done. Go away. Um, the ones that are like a complete salt lick in a glass, I'm, I'm very much over. Um, and I'm also over, um, weird garnishes, just for the sake of being weird. I completely appreciate a truly, you know, beautiful garnish. A functional garnish for sure. Um, but the ones where you get, um.

Let's say a glass and there's a balloon clipped to your glass, a little teeny tiny paper clip for no reason. I mean, I've been to, um, over the top experiences where, you know, there's a balloon clip to it, and the point is it's supposed to be punctured and released, you know, some beautiful aroma and you know, okay, whatever.

That's fun. But if there's no reason for it, it's like, get outta here. That's just wasteful. We don't need it. We don't want it. Just gimme a beautiful drink and I'm done. 

Chris Spear: You're in New York. Do, are you kind of like in the epicenter of like where cocktails are really [00:18:00] pushing the envelope, do you think?

Kara Newman: Sometimes? I think so. I think London probably has it over New York in terms of really, you know, forward thinking, over the top. Interesting. Any place? Uh. I'm going to mispronounce his, his name Ryan Che. Mr. Mr. Lyon. Mm-hmm. 

Chris Spear: Yeah, I 

Kara Newman: know who you're talking about. Ryan Lyon. Yeah. Any place he is, that's where the, the drinks are always, you know, the most over the top.

So if London's his home base, that's, that's probably where you wanna be. 

Chris Spear: We were in London. I mean, I've been in London twice in the past three years, but I think it was two times ago. We were there during London cocktail week, which was fun. And I did get to go to a couple events, you know, my go out with the family during the day and they were exhausted.

By eight o'clock, my wife and the kids were in bed watching tv. I'm like, huh, it's London Cocktail Week. I think I'm gonna go out. So I did get to try some pretty interesting things. There was a, a place, I think the chefs. Uh, handling is his name, like, kinda like a molecular gastronomy place in London, but he has [00:19:00] like a cocktail lab downstairs and you can see all of his, um, centrifuges and, you know, rots and all that stuff, um, behind the glass panel.

So you can kind of see the culinary lab, uh, in the bar, which was, it was a neat place. 

Kara Newman: That's fun. That's fun. There's a new place that recently opened, um, here in New York, uh, bar Contra, and that's Dave Arnold's new place. So, you know, the, the guy who really brought centrifuges and rotovap, uh, to, to the, the cocktail universe, it, he of the, the flaming pokers to, uh, to heat up your.

Hot. Todd, have you been, this is new place. No, and I, I need to, I mean, it's, it's very much high up on my Must try. It's on 

Chris Spear: my, it's on my list. Well, I love the guys. I mean, Contra was a great place. And what was the other restaurant that they had? Um, wild Air. Right. The, the chefs. So opening that with Dave. Um, so I was already a big fan of the restaurants.

I love Dave. I, I actually, I kind of cite him as getting me interested in cocktails. I took a [00:20:00] workshop with him in New York when he was still at the, um, French Culinary Institute and started doing all that weird stuff, and this was. 13, 14 years ago. Um, and he got me really excited about cocktails and the first time I went to New York City cocktail bars were at his recommendation.

So that was the first time I went to, you know, a couple of the classic New York places that you gotta go, like, um, employees only, and, um, death and Co and a morie. Yeah, I miss some of those cocktail in New York City nights. 

Kara Newman: I'll just have to come back and And do it all over again. 

Chris Spear: I will. That's what I miss.

There's 

Kara Newman: always something here. 

Chris Spear: That's one of the things I miss about not having the Star Chefs Congress is it was always a reason for me to come up and stay in New York City for four days and be able to go eat and drink everywhere I wanted to. 

Kara Newman: Well, you'll have to find another excuse now. 

Chris Spear: How do you, or how does anyone keep it fresh?

Like at what point have we seen it all and done it all? Like there's 8 billion cocktail books and websites and recipes and every time I think [00:21:00] I've come up with something creative, I Google it. I'm like, oh, someone combine these three spirits. You know, if you're not doing weird garnishes or syrups or something.

Like, have we kind of seen it all? 

Kara Newman: Sometimes I think so. And then every time I think, so somebody does manage to, to surprise me or they manage to, you know, take things in a different direction. Um, a good example is, um, Megan Doman of Dear Irving. Um, she's known for the, for making a really just spot on Gibson.

And she opened a, a new place. And on the menu is, um, it's the Gibby High Ball. So it's a, a Gibson that's lengthened and it's transformed into, you know, uh, an easy sipping, not as strong highball. It's like, oh, I suppose someone somewhere has, you know, done this before. But with this particular drink, it seems really challenging and it's really, you know, it's a, [00:22:00] it's a little something different and I appreciate that.

Or you mentioned employees only. And, uh, there's a new bar from, uh, Steve, Steve Schneider, who's part of the, the, uh, the employees only OGs. And, uh, the Bar Sip and Guzzle has a lot of drinks that are mashed up together. And, you know, you can have a, a Negroni colada. That's the, the one I can remember there, there are others too.

Um, it's like, oh, that's a different approach. And I'm sure, you know, other people have been mashing up drinks together, but it's like, oh, this works. You know, it's, it's two, two drinks that we already know put together in a different way. 

Chris Spear: I think of savory food in the same way. That's what I like to do.

Again, like saying reference point, especially when I'm creating something for a customer, you know, I do custom menus and it's like, I don't know if they just see it on paper, will they ever order this? How do I get them to understand that it's kind of like this, but also kind of like that. [00:23:00] 

Kara Newman: I went to a bar in Miami and had a, a reen empanada.

It's like, okay, that's an interesting Masha. Okay. 

Chris Spear: With your books, you do a lot of collaborations, um, you know, it's, you know, you're talking to a lot of the best in the business. Was there anyone or any couple people who you've been really excited to work with, like to pick the brains of people you really admire and have them maybe contribute a recipe to a book or an article?

Kara Newman: Um, sure. I mean, there definitely been lots of, lots of, uh, lots of folks. Um, I. I was happy to get Southern Teague of Amor Margot to contribute a couple of drinks to, to nightcap. I mean, since the bar is really all about, um, you know, drinks made with, with bitter flavors and no juices and it really lends itself to that nightcap format.

So I was really excited that he was willing to contribute. I think it was a, a. Brandy Toddy recipe [00:24:00] to, uh, to nightcap, and it was really just, you know, warming and lovely, and it just, it worked. It was just the right drink, right book, right time. It's like, yes. Happy to, to have that. 

Chris Spear: It's been years since I've been there, but that was always one of my favorite.

Like also because it's smaller and feels intimate, I mean, I don't, I know he's changed some things, but every time I went in there, it was just like you're in like a little tiny room with people and you could have great conversation. It wasn't like this loud, boisterous bar with a lot of crazy stuff going on.

And to have such an interesting collection of spirits, I mean, I'm someone who loves bitter things and Amaro, so that seemed like a, a perfect fit for me, and I absolutely love that place. 

Kara Newman: It was really, yeah, a great place to be. I actually, oh, can I tell you about one of my other projects that I've been working on?

Chris Spear: Absolutely. 

Kara Newman: Okay. So I've been doing decks of cocktail recipe cards. So they're, I mean like, like decks of cards, but each one's a cocktail recipe, you know, recipe, one side illustration on the other. And, uh, the first two that [00:25:00] dropped recently were gin and. Whiskey. And the next two that are coming out in, in May, this is relevant to the point I promise, is, um, there's tequila and then there's spritz and spritz involved a lot of these, um, you know, capari and AOL and, and bitter liqueurs.

And it reminded me, you know, just how, how, um, distinctive they are. 

Chris Spear: So how do you see cards as being different from a book? Is it just that it's a more fun format, that it's a little different? You know, break out a deck of cards, draw, draw one from the deck. I don't know. 

Kara Newman: Yeah, the whole serendipity angle.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think it has two, two or three different advantages. I mean, one is that that serendipity, you sort of pull one out and look at it.

Gifty kind of format. You know, it's something that's, that's small. It's um, like a stocking stuffer kind of [00:26:00] host gift kind of size. You know, really easy to just, you know, pick up and, and give to someone. And, um, I also, one of the things that kind of makes me a little nuts with a lot of cocktail books is that they don't stay open.

They're, 

Chris Spear: yeah, 

Kara Newman: they're often bound very tightly. A lot of them are, are paperback and, uh, you open it and like you have to, you have to weigh it down with a, a whiskey bottle or something, or a bitters bottle. And I like that be you kind of pick 'em up and you lay it down flat and you can read it quite easily.

Chris Spear: That's fun. Where can people get those? Is that like Amazon available everywhere? Yeah, 

Kara Newman: Amazon everywhere. Yeah. It's distributed through Rizzoli in in the US so they're easy to find. 

Chris Spear: So I think, you know, one of the things that's really great about your books is you seem to have done a really great. Job of having a theme.

And I guess like, I dunno if you wanna say like curating a topic, 'cause a lot of the recipes aren't new. You have, you know, cocktails for a crowd and there's a Negroni or whatever, but it's under the, the context of like, these are all batched or, you know, [00:27:00] nightcap, they're all night ones. So how do you come up with these themes?

Like how do you decide how you wanna put, you know, put it all together in a cohesive package where it's like you're taking things maybe people are familiar with, but packaging 'em in a really great way. 

Kara Newman: A lot of it has to do with taking what bartenders are already doing and, um, translating them for a, a lay person.

And if I'm able to hang a theme around that, you know, so much the, the better. Um, Nico and Ice wrote a really lovely book called The Cocktail Parlor, and I recommend it's all about. Women through cocktail history and, uh, much, much to my surprise, she also included, uh, a section on, uh, women who have written cocktail books, uh, through history, of course, but recently, and it kind of surprised me to find that I was in, in the book and she described me as a [00:28:00] translator that what I do is I, I translate, um, often complex bartender concepts.

For a, a lay person audience. And when I thought about, you know, it's, it's true. I took, uh, batching, I mean that's something that bartenders do to, you know, create high volume, fast serves and translated it to here's how we do batching for a cocktail party. And that was cocktails for a crowd. Or I took equal parts drinks.

No one was talking about equal parts drinks. That was like a geeky bartender thing. And that became Shaster sip. And you know, same thing with nightcap, um, more of just a. A genre. And then the most recent one was Cocktails with a Twist, and that was about cocktail families. And now there have been lots of other books on cocktail families, but that was just something that bartenders talked about, like yeah, you know, it's in the Manhattan Cocktail family.

And then that branched off and it's a different, you know, daiquiri family. It's like, oh, in this book, you know, each chapter is a, [00:29:00] a, a family. And then here are some of the, you know, the cousins in the Offspring. And, you know, it became a, a book. 

Chris Spear: Your books are my favorite books. And I'm not just saying this because you're my guest.

My God, thank you. They, I, I love the ideas of those cocktail store crowd was game changing for me. 'cause again, I, I didn't come from a restaurant. I worked in a, a retirement community, but a really high end one. But we had a bar there, but I couldn't get great bartenders because we were literally paying like minimum wage and you weren't allowed to tip.

So I got, you know. 22 year olds who've literally don't even drink. And we have a dining room that has 200 people in it. And you know, it's like, what are the top four drinks? You know? And they're all classic cocktails. So like having a Manhattan that we could batch and I would do it in the back and it was just like once a week we would batch out, you know, 200 Manhattans or whatever it is.

Wow. And have them ready and just have speed bottles. And you know, because our bartenders would be doing. 30, 40 Manhattans a night. Like it didn't make sense for them. I had one person on [00:30:00] bar, so you know, you're making all these drinks. So having that book was an amazing resource. And then, you know, if you're just having a party at home, we love entertaining and as much as I love making cocktails, I really don't wanna be mixing a whole bunch of cocktails when I should be entertaining.

'cause I'm probably also cooking as well. Um, so having like one or two drinks in the fridge and just saying, you know, if you like, you know, this kind of drink. Like a dark and spiritist, here's this and if you like something spritzy, here's this and what do you all want? And pulling 'em out. So, um, that's my favorite.

I don't know, it's hard. I actually like all of them. I also like the families 'cause that's how I like to make cocktails of like, I love a Negroni. But what if you switch out this for that? Then, you know, what does it become? 

Kara Newman: Thank you so much. You're welcome. I'm also, I'm also thinking about the retirement home.

I mean, there's an interesting story. Uh, that's not the first time I've heard about bars at retirement centers and how it. Brings, you know, this moment of, you know, happiness and comfort to the, [00:31:00] the residents. That's a good story. Someone should tell that story. 

Chris Spear: Yeah. Well we, um, you know, especially now as you're getting more the boomer, you're definitely getting people who were more accustomed to drinking.

You know, when I started working in a retirement community 20 years ago is maybe different. And I worked in some that had religious affiliations and they didn't drink. But now, you know, you've got people who are. 65 in a retirement community. Like they definitely came up through like a, if you will, a golden age of drinking cocktails.

So having a mix of like some classic drinks that they would like, but also maybe something interesting, a little twist. So I really enjoyed that and I. Had a lot of trouble finding bartenders and I spent a lot of my nights working the bar, which is also a great way to keep an eye on the front of the house service, like if my guys in the kitchen have it down.

Actually being behind the bar in the center of the dining room where I can keep an eye on service while I'm also making cocktails. So I spent many nights making cocktails in this, uh, high-end retirement community that I worked at. 

Kara Newman: Amazing. Do you remember what the best sellers were? The [00:32:00] Manhattan and Sellers?

Yeah. The 

Chris Spear: man. The Man. Yeah. The Manhattan for sure was the bestseller. We did a lot of, now it was interesting, we had a lot of martinis, but they were almost all vodka martinis for whatever reason. 

Kara Newman: Interesting. 

Chris Spear: Yeah. And I would think with the older crowd it would be a gin, but it, they leaned more towards the, the vodka.

Um, and I had a couple people who were, they wanted a really classic old fashioned, I tried a couple different spins on it. Not big fans of like some of the interesting twists on the old fashions, but, um, you know, that's a hard one to match 

Kara Newman: too. 

Chris Spear: Yeah. But we, we would also try to have one signature cocktail every night.

So I challenged my team to come up with like one thing and it didn't have to be crazy. It's just like, maybe tonight's the night, you know, we always could make you a mudslide or whatever, but let's, you know, batch out five of those and um, see if we can sell them. 

Kara Newman: I love this so much. 

Chris Spear: That's awesome. Yeah, I love that.

I miss I miss that part, um, of what I was doing there. 'cause it, it was really fun. And then you get to talk to people [00:33:00] who have strong opinions about spirits. Let's just say strong opinions, uh, food too. Once you get someone who's like in their sixties to eighties and have lived a good long life, they're gonna tell you what they like, don't like.

And, um, be fairly critical at times. 

Kara Newman: I bet that really prepared you well for the, the hospitality industry. Oh my goodness. It sure did. 

Chris Spear: It also prepares you well for having children. 

Kara Newman: Who else will be more critical? 

Chris Spear: Yes. I, um, you know, it's a, a part of my career that I like to talk about because I think a lot of people think about being a chef and being in the food industry and being in these high-end restaurants and whatever.

It's like there's a lot of avenues you can go down and, um, put together a good food program and. Bar program. So 

Kara Newman: fascinating. 

Chris Spear: Yeah. Um, well, any other projects? Do you have any books coming out, Sue? Like are you working on any books? 

Kara Newman: Not at the moment. I'm working on a proposal, but I'm, I'm not ready to talk about it.[00:34:00] 

Uh, sure. Just, just yet. Offline maybe, but not just yet. 

Chris Spear: Yeah. Before it slips in my mind, one of the things I want to talk about is non-alcoholic drinks. Um, something we're seeing a lot of, what are some really. Fun and easy things. Without maybe getting into like all the spirits. I know there's a lot of na spirits, a lot of them are very pricey.

If you read reviews, they get a lot of mixed reviews. So do you have any direction on, you know, I'm having a dinner party this weekend. I have one friend coming over who doesn't drink. I, I want them to feel special. Like, what are some of your go-tos that maybe don't involve like a, a pre-made, like non-alcoholic whiskey or something?

Kara Newman: That's a really great question. It's funny, it's something that I've been thinking about recently, so I'm glad you you brought it up. Um, I'm not sure. I mean, I feel like there are all of these drinks that are possible to put together, but haven't really been codified into, [00:35:00] into, you know, these are the classic drinks of the non-alcoholic cocktail cannon.

You know, you've got the Shirley Temple, the Roy Rogers. Arnold Palmer and then, I don't know, TTBA, I don't know. Um, I would probably think about syrups. Mm-hmm. Um, things like, um, a rosemary infused simple syrup and a grapefruit soda or a DIY grapefruit soda with grapefruit and uh, and soda water. Might be a really nice little, little combination, sort of like a non elk.

Paloma almost. 

Chris Spear: Mm-hmm. And we have a soda stream, like a spritzer thing, which is really great 'cause you can carbonate anything. So that opens up great. That opens up a lot of ideas. Yeah. I just, um, you know, I'd like to have some fun stuff and I'm, you know, drinking less. I'm not, not drinking, I still drink, but it's like less.

So I'm always trying to find interesting things and I'm not opposed to making something that takes a little time. I bought, uh, grant [00:36:00] T's zero book. I don't know if you've seen it, where you're like making your own non-alcoholic spirits. The only thing is every recipe calls for like 15 vanilla beans. I'm like, I'm gonna be spending $80 to make a non-alcoholic rum.

Like, I don't know, it's not really what I'm thinking I want. Do I. 

Kara Newman: I haven't seen the book. I bet it's really elaborate. Yeah, I bet it's really good. 

Chris Spear: Yeah, no, I mean it's great. It has recipes for if you wanna make like a rum, a whiskey, all of those type things, and doing the infusions and stuff. But so many of them call for vanilla beans and I'm sure you know vanilla beans are not inexpensive right now and you're like, oh, 15 vanilla beans for a bottle of rum.

Mm. I don't know. Maybe I'll just stick with buying a $20 bottle of actual alcohol rum. 

Kara Newman: Everything's too expensive right now. Um, I'll tell you what I am really enthusiastic about in the non elk world. Um, Italian sodas, chinos and Stoppy. And, uh, I go to Italy and I'll spend a fortune happily because the, the drinks are just so good.

The Italians know how to do sophisticated [00:37:00] sodas. 

Chris Spear: I don't know why they're so hard to find. Like we don't have anywhere here where I can find them. Even like, um. The Italian market, they sometimes have like, what are the little not Campari things? You know, there's a couple brands of the, and I hate the Red Bitter.

Yeah, I hate that. They're also only one ounce. I like, I wanna drink like a bigger glass and there are these like tiny little micro, like one ounce bottles and they're good. But I'm like, how many of these am I gonna open? And then before you know it, I've opened like all six, uh, in one shot and spent like $15 on my little red soda.

But yeah, that's a great point. I love those. I'm hoping that they become more available. I'd love to see more in growth. Stores. You know, if you, we can get non-alcoholic beer in grocery stores. I don't know why we can't get like a choto in the grocery stores 

Kara Newman: and they're so good. Oh, I love choto. That's, it's like chin but non-alcoholic.

Chris Spear: I wonder how hard it would be to make something like that at home. Like there's gotta be like homemade recipes for like just a bitter syrup or something. 

Kara Newman: I know you could figure it [00:38:00] out if anyone could. You could. 

Chris Spear: Yeah. Yeah, maybe that'll be my next project. I'll keep you, I'll keep you posted, making my own, um, and then just carbonating them at home and see how that goes.

Do you have any final things you wanna talk about? Anything that's exciting, new? Anything on your mind that you wanna get out there before we, uh, finish up here today? 

Kara Newman: Uh, I mean, I guess the, the last things on my mind, I'm still thinking about the, uh, the cocktail cabinet cards. You know, one last, one last plug for those.

Um, I'm thinking about how drinks are still kind of too expensive. I'm, I'm happy to see a lot of happy hours coming up and I'm, I'm, I'm not sorry to see more people making drinks at, at home because it's, it's less expensive that way. I mean, people have become so sophisticated in what they, they make at home.

I mean, everybody seems to know how to make drinks. It's, I mean, when, when we started learning, [00:39:00] I. It was kind of a big deal. You know, nobody, nobody knew what a mixing glass was. Nobody knew different kinds of, of gin. Nobody thought about making an old fashioned hope. E everybody knows now. I mean, you, if you don't know, you can, you know, see a video on TikTok on YouTube.

You can, you know, Google it. Uh, but it seems like cocktail recipes and knowledge and tools for, for learning are. Everywhere now, and that makes me really happy. We've all come a really long way. 

Chris Spear: Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. It was great having you here today. 

Kara Newman: It's my pleasure. 

Chris Spear: And to all of our listeners, this has been Chris with Chefs Without Restaurants.

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