From Fine Dining to Ice Cream with Snow Crane's Chef Takeshi Nishikawa

On this episode of Chefs Without Restaurants, I’m joined by Chef Takeshi Nishikawa, founder of Snow Crane—a Japanese-inspired ice cream shop coming to Hyattsville, Maryland in 2025. After years leading high-profile kitchens like the Michelin-starred Rose’s Luxury and Pineapple and Pearls, Takeshi is now channeling his energy into small-batch, seasonal ice cream that reflects his minimalist approach and deep respect for Japanese culinary traditions.

We talk about the challenges of launching a culinary business, and how he's applying his fine dining background to a neighborhood-focused ice cream shop. He shares lessons learned from overseeing complex catering operations, why mentorship is critical, and how he’s laying the groundwork for Snow Crane’s success.

TAKESHI  NISHIKAWA
Instagram for Snow Crane and chef Takeshi

Snow Crane's website

New Kitchens on the Block (April 26th) - Try Snow Crane's ice cream

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Chris Spear: This is Chris Beer and you're listening to Chefs Without Restaurants. The show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting. I have 32 years of working in kitchens but not restaurants, and currently operate a personal chef service throwing dinner parties in the Washington DC area.

[00:00:21] Chris Spear: Today on the show I have Chef Akashi, nwa. He's the founder of Snow Crane, a Japanese inspired ice cream shop that's slated to open in Hyattsville, Maryland. Snow crane blends fine dining precision with the comfort of nostalgic cultural flavors. Prior to launching Snow Crane, Toshi served as the culinary director for the Roses Restaurant Group, home to Michelin Star Roses Luxury, and Pineapple and Pearls.

[00:00:45] Chris Spear: If you're familiar with the DC dining scene, uh, those are some fantastic restaurants. I've had a couple amazing meals at Rose's Luxury. So having led some of the DC area's, top kitchens, now he's channeling that experience into small [00:01:00] batch ice cream. So beside actual ice cream per se, we talk a lot about starting a small food and or beverage business, something that I'm sure many of you, the listener, uh, can appreciate because I know many of you have your own or are looking to start your own small food and beverage businesses, whether it's a personal chef business or something like an ice cream shop that's maybe especially out of the box.

[00:01:25] Chris Spear: He's been doing a few popups in the area, and if you are in the DC area. You'll have a chance to try some of his creations at the upcoming new Kitchens on the Block, which is happening on April 26th. I will also link that in the show notes. It's such a great event. I'm gonna be there and it's not only a chance to check out his ice cream, but um, get a sneak peek and some great food from some of the upcoming other restaurants that will be hitting DC really soon.

[00:01:52] Chris Spear: Alright, so let's get to the show As always, thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Hey, welcome to the show. Thanks so much [00:02:00] for coming on. Hey, thanks for having me. So you are getting ready to open an ice cream shop? Um, is that what you call it? Are you calling it an ice cream shop? 

[00:02:11] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah, I think so.

[00:02:11] Takeshi Nishikawa: I'm calling the ice cream shop. Yeah. Call it for what it is. 

[00:02:14] Chris Spear: Yeah. Um, well before we get there, I want to hear about your backstory. How did you get involved in the food business? 

[00:02:22] Takeshi Nishikawa: So I think I just like a lot of the chefs, like I grew up. In a family where, um, my grandmother was the one who was cooking dinner.

[00:02:33] Takeshi Nishikawa: My parents were already always, uh, going out for our work and things like that. And I really helped her out, like, you know, like serving things, cutting things, you know, and things like that. And, and I really, really enjoyed that experience. And also, like my father and everybody else who does a, a line of work that, you know, usually involve your hands.

[00:02:51] Takeshi Nishikawa: And I really love. I was trying to always figure it out, what I would wanted to do, and early on kind of figured out what cooking is it, and then [00:03:00] I just, once I decided, I just, you know, dive into it and kept cooking. 

[00:03:05] Chris Spear: Well, you're down in DC now, so you're the, what's the position? Is it Culinary Director for the Roses Restaurant Group?

[00:03:12] Chris Spear: Is that right? I was. How long were you doing that? Three years or not? A little bit. So what did that entail? Were you overseeing. All the menus for the multiple restaurants that they had. 

[00:03:26] Takeshi Nishikawa: Not necessarily that's what you normally think of, but I guess when I first started, obviously getting involved with the, the group and all that and getting to know their culture and food and all that after that is my primary goal was to reopen the Pineapple Pearl, which is to Summerland restaurant.

[00:03:42] Takeshi Nishikawa: Uh, back then was right after COVID-19 and was closed and, um, making a plan and roadmap to be reopen. That was my primary, , goal. And after that I shifted myself over more to, , working in their, , catering or private, , event, , branch. And it was called extra fancy. But , [00:04:00] it's just something that started out much small and then increasing the capacity and what it can do.

[00:04:05] Takeshi Nishikawa: So instead of doing, you know, 15, 20 people dinner parties going into like a hundred people, two people, some inside the city, some outside beyond. 

[00:04:17] Chris Spear: That's a challenge is doing offsite, especially at such a high level of cooking. Um, you know, I work as a personal chef, so every time you go into someone's home and have to, you know, try and put on a fun dinner party, , it's different every time.

[00:04:31] Chris Spear: But to execute at the level that I know people are expecting from places like pineapple and pearls and roses, uh, that must have been quite an experience. 

[00:04:40] Takeshi Nishikawa: It is, it really takes a lot of planning, , making sure like you have your timeline and , all that stuff. But for sure, I mean, it's definitely a little different from just throwing, you know, barbecue party, , and having my friends over, it's a little bit more intense on that.

[00:04:54] Chris Spear: When you came into a restaurant group that already had, they'd established themselves pretty well. [00:05:00] I'm sure they had, , recipes, procedures, and everything. How do you feel their food changed or maybe your approach when you came in? Like, do you feel like you brought a certain style or aesthetic or a bunch of ideas that maybe they weren't using or implementing , and kind of took things in a little slightly different direction?

[00:05:18] Chris Spear: I mean, I know you're trying to reopen a restaurant that had been closed because of Covid, but what did that look like? 

[00:05:24] Takeshi Nishikawa: I think what typically people would expect from my answer to be is yes, I had this statistician and that went on the menu and the cuisine evolved because of me coming in.

[00:05:33] Takeshi Nishikawa: But in fact, like, well, I think my biggest contribution to the group, I think was more logistical things, more in additional things and what people wouldn't think of as a culinary director. So when I say that, it's like formatting recipes, , instead of just typed out, . Recipe, you know, recipe with more photos and , more aesthetically beautiful design for internal staffing, things like that to, again, go into catering and, , what does the timeline look like and all these things to be able to do that.[00:06:00]

[00:06:00] Takeshi Nishikawa: And lastly, like, you know, more importantly nowadays it's like it's really about coaching, the mentorship , of the head chefs and chef Kuzi, and then all these high level managers. And I think that's really like. 

[00:06:11] Chris Spear: Where did you learn that skill? Did you learn that at a previous restaurant or through formal, your formal culinary training?

[00:06:17] Chris Spear: Like how do you think that you were prepared to be able to lead a team and do that kind of stuff? 

[00:06:22] Takeshi Nishikawa: So I think I'm kind of obsessed with, , reading them books and, and also, digesting contents through podcasts. And I think I listen to a lot of. , amazing people who accomplished a lot and also read biography and books on people who also accomplished a lot.

[00:06:37] Takeshi Nishikawa: And I think we try to thread the needles between those things to see , what is my style and, what is the kind of impact I wanna leave for certain people? And I think that's kind of how I started. I don't think when I was growing up in a kitchen, maybe the same, but, that wasn't a thing and it was like, , getting yelled at and then, you know, either you make or break it.

[00:06:53] Takeshi Nishikawa: I think that was how I was raised. So , I certainly learned what not to do, but I think, you know, like that's how I probably [00:07:00] acquire a lot of skills and knowledge on my end. 

[00:07:03] Chris Spear: Well, and maybe looking at things outside of the food industry, right? Because similarly, when I started my personal chef business, I had been a chef manager.

[00:07:09] Chris Spear: I had run large operations, but I needed to kind of refine some of those skills. And I wasn't just listening to podcasts and reading books specifically about the food industry. I was looking at other industries and people who've built, , big things and businesses to kind of see what they did and then figure out how to interpret that to run a food business.

[00:07:25] Chris Spear: I see behind you, I'm, I'm looking at your books. I see. Is that unreasonable hospitality in the bright yellow by your head there? This one? Yeah. 

[00:07:31] Takeshi Nishikawa: That's right. That's right. 

[00:07:33] Chris Spear: So looking at a book like that, I mean, that is the hospitality industry, but I think that's a book that's gonna translate to so many other industries.

[00:07:39] Chris Spear: Just the way you interact with your customers and the people who work for you. You know, I think it's great to be in a time where people are really interested in looking at things like that. And, , learning how to be a better leader in the kitchen and to. Give a better experience. What I'll say personally is having been to Rose's luxury a number of times.

[00:07:59] Chris Spear: Um, it's [00:08:00] some of the best experiences I've had as a customer, not just the food, but the way they make you feel. Um, the very first time I went there, they were totally full. They had no space. And then they said, why don't you come up to the bar? And there were no seats. And they said, oh, we'll go find a seat for you.

[00:08:13] Chris Spear: And they just went and found a chair and they asked everyone to slide over and they found a, a seat for me when there wasn't really space, you know? And then the first thing was like, you know, do you have any allergies? No, whatever. And then they sent out this complimentary dish and it was just like, that's kind of the experience I had had there.

[00:08:28] Chris Spear: I've gone. 

[00:08:30] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah. I think, , being a chef and then I think beyond that, I think hospitality, I think everybody defines differently. But for us, it's definitely for roses and also for myself, I think it's like, it's really about how you are making other people feel. And I think that's the biggest thing, you know, I think that's can be done through language, through body language, uh, decor, music, temperature.

[00:08:52] Takeshi Nishikawa: Whole nine yard. But I think it, I think that's super, super important. I think it's, you know, nowadays food is becoming a one known substance and I think it [00:09:00] becoming an experience, maybe it's like an event, maybe a special occasion. And I think it really, like, experience starts from, even from the outside and, and I think being able to manage all that is really, really critical.

[00:09:10] Takeshi Nishikawa: And, you know, you can have amazing food, right? Everything else is just wrong or something that, you know, uncomfortable, then I don't think that person's gonna be back. 

[00:09:18] Chris Spear: When I was a lot younger, I was very much all in about exciting food, interesting stuff would go anywhere. And then as I, I've gotten older, I've put a lot more weight into the experience.

[00:09:28] Chris Spear: There's been a lot of places I've gone that have, you know, great reputation, great chef, great food, and then you go in and the I. Service is cold or sometimes just downright not great, or there's a lot of other things and it's just, you know, it's so expensive to go out these days that if I'm gonna spend the money to go out somewhere, I wanna make sure that the experience from, you know, start to finish.

[00:09:46] Chris Spear: I'm more willing to overlook, um, like maybe a technical cooking flaw with some food than I am, like a really bad service point. That's kind of where I'm at these days as a diner. 

[00:09:58] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah, I agree. And I think also where I come from, [00:10:00] Japan, I think that is a huge, you know, uh, focus, you know, that obviously the product has to be great.

[00:10:06] Takeshi Nishikawa: You know, food isn't that great and don't one coming back. But beyond that, like, you know, greeting, uh, package design, um, restaurant design and all these things during curl being porn and really making people feel like, you know, like, like they're special. And first time my wife, she's from Maryland, but you know, when she went to Japan the first time.

[00:10:27] Takeshi Nishikawa: Hospitality, like blew her mind. It's like it's so different. Like she felt like she was treated like, you know, like a, like a loyalty person where like, you know, someone from the, uh, like Imperial house, no, just a regular person. But like, you know, all that really goes a long way. And I think, you know, sometime it's harder to find that outside.

[00:10:43] Takeshi Nishikawa: But I think, you know, we can definitely replicate that type experience where, you know, you make every person coming through the door feel special. 

[00:10:51] Chris Spear: And now you've decided to start your own adventure and start a business. So, uh, I would love to hear about this. Tell me about this business that you're working on right now.[00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah, so it's called Snow Crane and it is a Jap, uh, Japanese flavor and culture inspired ice cream shop. Uh, the focus on hyper seasonal ingredients and minimalistic design and concept out of here in Hyattsville, Maryland. 

[00:11:17] Chris Spear: Is there technical differences with Japanese ice cream? Like is that a style of ice cream that's made different than, you know, maybe what more people are used to here, like a American style or like a Philly style or a custard style?

[00:11:31] Chris Spear: How the actual way the ice cream's made is there a difference like with different ingredients? 

[00:11:36] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah. Um, but I'm still kind of trying to figure out on that end exactly what really makes sense to me. Like I do like more gelato style, you know, lower fat content and things like that appeals to me. Uh, in fact, I'm ne I don't really consume it all dairy myself, but, uh, but I think it's more I'm diving into the, uh, the showcasing the ingredients, uh, and showcasing, um, the [00:12:00] culture through food.

[00:12:01] Takeshi Nishikawa: And I think, you know, using ice cream as. 

[00:12:04] Chris Spear: Why ice cream? Why did you want to, of all the things you could have done, why start there? 

[00:12:09] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah, I, I think there's something really aesthetically beautiful about it then, you know, like I've met a lot of different people, a lot of different cultures. You know, Asia, Europe, America, wherever.

[00:12:20] Takeshi Nishikawa: I can't say I've met a lot of people who's not a fan of ice cream. 

[00:12:23] Chris Spear: No. Everyone loves ice cream. Even in the dead of winter, it's five degrees out and i's delete a bowl of ice cream. 

[00:12:29] Takeshi Nishikawa: Exactly. And I, and I get that a lot. It's like, you know, how do you do something in a business or seasonal business? But I think it only seasonal if you think so.

[00:12:36] Takeshi Nishikawa: Uh, you know, if you, if there are so many avenues you can do ice cream, that's, you know, that's craveable during the, uh, cold Seasons. But I think, I think that's one of the reasons. Then I think you saw a bunch of trends where like, you know, chefs, fine dining chefs, I guess, like, you know, going into pizza places and.

[00:12:52] Takeshi Nishikawa: One of the derivatives, I was like, you know what, why not? You know, all that sounds great, but all these amazing shifts, you're doing it. So what's the chance of me [00:13:00] actually being successful against some of the people who operate in, you know, much highly caliber places than I do? Then I was thinking like, okay, ice cream really sounds like, you know, like something that I could enjoy doing and, and something that I could be actually good at.

[00:13:14] Takeshi Nishikawa: And in the region when I look at it, you know, I in a smallville, but again, when I was like, you. My wife and daughter, I look around and you know, they're an amazing barbecue place. They're amazing bakery, there's amazing coffee places. So when I thought of that, like what could be complimentary and as a resident here, what could add more values to the community?

[00:13:35] Takeshi Nishikawa: And then also the answer with ice cream. So I was like, you know what, let me just do that. So that's how I came about with the ice cream as a concept. 

[00:13:42] Chris Spear: I mean, after I have some barbecue, I definitely want to go get some ice cream. 

[00:13:45] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah, that's right. 

[00:13:46] Chris Spear: So you saw like, um, like seasonal flavors and interesting, uh, things like that.

[00:13:51] Chris Spear: What are some of the flavors that you're hoping to do and like, I know you've been making ice cream, so what are some of the flavors you've done? 

[00:13:58] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah, uh, we've done [00:14:00] a lot. I mean, especially nordi and things like that, we've done a lot. But, uh, initially we've done the, uh, which is like a barley ice cream.

[00:14:08] Takeshi Nishikawa: Uh, the barley tea that into ice cream. We.

[00:14:14] Takeshi Nishikawa: Uh, soybean flour and, and we pour over, uh, ok. Black, uh, sugar syrup over the top. And so.

[00:14:25] Takeshi Nishikawa: Strange. Strange or something that it's not familiar, but it just like, you know, first time I had a tini, but it's just like something that kind of clicked. Um, so it's like, I think flavor profile is very approachable and it's very delicious when you have it. It's just like, yeah, it's, it's just really good.

[00:14:38] Takeshi Nishikawa: So it's like I'm trying to start from somewhere where it's like little bit more approachable and then hopefully going to something that it's a little bit more of out there. 

[00:14:46] Chris Spear: Have you ever been to Odd Fellows in New York and had any of Sam Mason's ice cream before? Do you know them? 

[00:14:51] Takeshi Nishikawa: I do, but I've not, I haven't, I haven't been there.

[00:14:53] Chris Spear: There's some wild stuff. I think I had a caramelized onion ice cream one time. Okay. There definitely was a [00:15:00] miso cherry, but I mean like really pushing the envelope on flavors there. And I think he has like four of them maybe in New York. And I really love that stuff. I'm always the person who's going to select the most interesting, like, you know, a cookie dough, ice cream is fine, but you can get that anywhere.

[00:15:15] Chris Spear: If I'm gonna go to a place that has some interesting flavors, that's what I want to try. So where. Are you in the process with this? I know you've done popups and you're trying to, um, build this. What are you doing right now? Like, are you actively doing popups? Do you have any planned. 

[00:15:31] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yes, uh, we're definitely doing a lot of popups and we're definitely doing a lot of, uh, internal organizational things and building the, uh, operational roadmap for 2025 and beyond.

[00:15:43] Takeshi Nishikawa: And I am a long-term thinker, so I do have, you know, one year or quarterly, yearly into all the way up to 10 year goals. And that's how I operate. You know, like really understanding what is the destination I wanna be. And then zoom into, you know, what do I have to do to get one tip [00:16:00] closer to where the destination may be?

[00:16:02] Takeshi Nishikawa: So that's the approach. And then currently again, uh, we are actually talking to a lot of people. When I say a lot like beyond d and v, you know, um, some are restaurants, some are event venues, some are different concepts. Uh. Like try to collaborate with the really fun people who do amazing work, um, and really have fun, really, to be honest, like part of it is, you know, creating buzz, creating marketing content.

[00:16:27] Takeshi Nishikawa: But other part is like, you know, I've been operating in f and b industry for over 20 years, but like, I constantly learn things. And when you have a full-time job, you know. I go out, go out there and learn from other people because you're too busy run, you know, running your own business or running somebody else's business.

[00:16:44] Takeshi Nishikawa: But now I'm in a position where, , my restaurant is yet to open, or I guess the, uh, the ice cream shop is yet to open. So, I mean, have a little bit of flexibility. So I'm really , trying to leverage just to get to know people, get to work in somebody else's kitchen [00:17:00] and maybe, , just do stuff or whatever.

[00:17:02] Takeshi Nishikawa: Like I really enjoy stuff like that when I was younger. So maybe just circle back and, see what I can learn today. But in terms of , location and things like that, , we actually identified something in the area, so hopefully, , we get to announce that hopefully soon.

[00:17:16] Chris Spear: Looking at your flavors, have you made anything that maybe you weren't crazy about that you were excited to try, but then execution that kind of fell flat? 

[00:17:24] Takeshi Nishikawa: We, obviously there's a lot of failures. Like I, I obviously just like a lot of people, I have more failures than, you know, what came out great, but I think one of the things I'm actually working on is vegan recipe.

[00:17:35] Takeshi Nishikawa: I think that's a very hot topic nowadays, but it's like, it's just one of those things that everybody's doing and it becoming pretty hot topic. So I kind of attempt, attempt that, but I, it's not really happy place, but I think I'm gonna keep working on it. But also another thing is , the making hot ice cream, because , the whole winter thing that we were just talking about a second ago, it's like, you know, it's too cold.

[00:17:53] Takeshi Nishikawa: I don't wanna have, , ice cream. I was like, what if I make it hot? Will you come? So I was thinking of that and have, have you tried that yet? Have you done a hot ice cream [00:18:00] before? I have not, but I, there's obviously people who's done it in the past Yeah. And things like that. But it's like I'm trying to make it more like practical and something that it's delicious instead of , something flashy in terms of , technical things.

[00:18:13] Takeshi Nishikawa: So I, I think I'm just trying to like, you know, where's the, the happy, , middle ground between, , what is just interesting for chefs versus like something that's like actually good for the consumers. 

[00:18:24] Chris Spear: I think you hit the nail there because it's an actual business. I think a lot of times people get really excited about, you know, whether we're talking about the molecular gastronomy wave, right?

[00:18:32] Chris Spear: Where everyone was doing all this stuff that they were all excited about and then, you know, you talk to customers who were like, I came and I ate there and I had 27 courses of stuff I didn't really enjoy and like I left hungry and I didn't get it. But we were all pumping the machine and everyone's egos a a lot of chefs, but.

[00:18:48] Chris Spear: You need to get customers who come in who enjoy your product, , will pay money for it and hopefully become repeat customers and tell their friends. So what's the big thing that you're working on [00:19:00] right now? Like if you're focusing your energy, is it on getting a space set? Is it doing more of the popups?

[00:19:06] Chris Spear: Is it r and d? Like there's only so many hours in the day for you, what are you focusing your energy on? 

[00:19:13] Takeshi Nishikawa: I mean, space is definitely, yes, but you know, I'm working with, , incredible, an object designer, incredible, , commercial broker, and those people have done that for their lives. And that to me is like not my domain.

[00:19:26] Takeshi Nishikawa: And, I almost operate myself as like a coach of the, sports franchise. You know, like I don't have to be the, linebacker. I don't have to be the quarterback if I can't play that position. I'm gonna find the person who can do it. Right. So I'm working, but I think more working passively.

[00:19:42] Takeshi Nishikawa: But I think product development is definitely one thing, and brand design and marketing is definitely one. , and lastly is really like, , operationally, , creating the demand and creating excitement, , so when we open, I want it to be where it's like, it's so busy.

[00:19:56] Takeshi Nishikawa: People, you know, super excited for and counting the days [00:20:00] that we open. We wanna be. 

[00:20:02] Chris Spear: How are you planning on doing that? I mean, obviously social media, I know you have an Instagram page and we have a pretty vibrant food scene in the DC area. But do you have kind of a plan laid out of how you're gonna get in front of people and build some of that?

[00:20:14] Chris Spear: Because, you know, a lot of my listeners have their own businesses and they're always looking for great ways to create buzz 

[00:20:20] Takeshi Nishikawa: right. I think just do something that's. Do something that's original. Again, if you just say ice cream shop, there's so many great ice cream shops, right?

[00:20:30] Takeshi Nishikawa: I mean not nevermind just the DC but it just in general. But it's like you have to figure out like ways to differentiate yourself, your business from the rest. Like that's why I'm going into ice cream, but also Japanese. But then it's like, you know, how many people has done , black sesame or wasabi if you wanna get funky, whatever.

[00:20:50] Takeshi Nishikawa: But I think, , at the end of the day, , it's just gonna be a one scoop, , and they're gonna ask you what they want in cup of cone, or how many scoops. Like that to me is fine, but it's like, that's not what I want to be. [00:21:00] I'm trying to distinguish yourself by, you know, like more decorative things.

[00:21:03] Takeshi Nishikawa: , you know, chefs finish with a garnish shirt, things like that where, you know, maybe ice cream. Scoop. Why not just make it squared? I mean, what's wrong with it? Sure. Right. You know, like different garnishes, that might take a little time, but you know, like I myself as a finite background person, sometimes the garnish takes more time to prep on the pro protein itself.

[00:21:23] Takeshi Nishikawa: And, and that's okay. And the same kind of thing here. , I'm really trying to create one of the kind experience and then, , I have more exciting sense coming. But , when people look at it and people say , wow. The most beautiful ice cream I've ever seen. Like without a joke, I've gotten out so many times and we only done very few popups.

[00:21:41] Takeshi Nishikawa: So I think I'm pretty confident my skill and my team skill to be able to execute something that is truly remarkable that's, completely 

[00:21:48] Chris Spear: different from what other people are doing. Are there any places you're gonna be serving your ice cream anytime soon that people can try? 

[00:21:55] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah. Uh, right now we are actually doing popups [00:22:00] at the mixed food hall in Brentwood.

[00:22:03] Takeshi Nishikawa: This is a part of the, , gateway farmer market, which is in Brentwood, Maryland, which if you were in DC like if you follow island. Avenue from district. It's, it's really about 10 minutes away. Um, along with other amazing local, , farmers, bakers, like, you know, there are a lot of people.

[00:22:19] Takeshi Nishikawa: It's like, it's super fun. And I think DC in general is growing a lot, but I can bet my money. I think the Hyattsville in Prince Jordan County is gonna be the next one. 

[00:22:29] Chris Spear: That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I've definitely seen more places growing out there. I'm sure real estate is much more reasonable than being in the heart of DC for one thing.

[00:22:38] Takeshi Nishikawa: A hundred percent. I mean like new startup people like, you know, really can't afford like really, really prime real estate in pan quarter Georgetown and all these like you really developed areas. So I think naturally , whether you're just looking for residential home or if you're looking in commercial space, I think you are gonna see a lot more exciting new things come out from all these areas.

[00:22:57] Chris Spear: Well, I live in Frederick, Maryland, so you know, I'm a about an [00:23:00] hour or so outta DC and just having seen how the food scene has evolved here. Um, you know, uh, you worked at Volt at one point. Mm-hmm. Correct. So you, so you're familiar with Frederick and just kinda seeing how, uh, I'm not from here originally, but I moved here in 2007 and lived downtown about two blocks away from there.

[00:23:17] Chris Spear: And just kind of seeing how the food scene has grown and then that brings more people and now we're, , opening new hotels and they're looking at conference centers, but, you know, it kind of builds on each other. As , more people are working remotely and not wanting to live in the city, kind of pushing out this way.

[00:23:31] Chris Spear: And we're starting to get our own little, , food scene growing up around us, which has been interesting to watch. 

[00:23:37] Takeshi Nishikawa: I'm really, really super excited for things like that. I mean, I'd like to see more places like, where people find wherever they find they, they whatever they call their home and do something amazing things so that, you know, wherever you go, it's like, really great.

[00:23:50] Takeshi Nishikawa: Something, you know, great food, great cocktails, great beverages, great coffees, and I think I see more and more these days. So. 

[00:23:57] Chris Spear: Well, and you know, you never know how things are gonna shift. I [00:24:00] think one of the big things clearly with Covid was people weren't traveling to destination restaurants. You know, there was a time where people were, you know, planning vacations around where they wanted to dine, and then when we're not traveling, getting on planes, going to places, they were staying home more.

[00:24:13] Chris Spear: And I think a lot of these places that maybe previously were relied on, um, a lot of kind of. Tourist type diners had to focus more on their own places. I mean, Brian Alone had talked about that, the shift from Volt to Thatcher and Rye of like, okay, we're not bringing people from all over anymore. This needs to be like a Frederick restaurant where people think of, oh, it's a Tuesday night.

[00:24:33] Chris Spear: Yeah, I'll go down there. Versus like, I have to only go there or can only fo to go there on my, you know, anniversary or birthday or something. And I think as a whole, we've seen more of those like places in. Maybe smaller markets become more, um, you know, for the every person who lives there, as opposed to just special dining.

[00:24:52] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah. I definitely can understand that. I mean, myself also like, you know, just because we are gonna be using extremely high [00:25:00] quality ingredients and then technically , it's not like mass production. So for the scale economy, yes the things will be more expensive relative to Ho and Dots or Ben and Jerry and stuff like that.

[00:25:11] Takeshi Nishikawa: But at the end of the day, like I don't wanna price myself.

[00:25:17] Takeshi Nishikawa: Really from , old Town, Alexandria or Georgetown, , Washington, DC or Annapolis, Maryland. I think, again, like I said earlier on it, I wanted to be the neighborhood place where people can come by and last year, , my wife and I, our first daughter, and. I wanted to be a place where little kids can walk in and grab ice cream and go out or hang out, things like that.

[00:25:37] Takeshi Nishikawa: I want something like more neighborhood means, so it's like, you know. Be where, someone can only go for special occasion, of course. Like, you know, it's ice cream's, a little different scenario. But again, , you shouldn't have to feel like, , okay, lemme check my bank account before I go, like, you know, financing option.

[00:25:54] Takeshi Nishikawa: I don't want it be like that. I want people be because they want to and they love product. [00:26:00]

[00:26:00] Chris Spear: And , it's tough because, , you can get really good ice cream in the stores. Um, my wife and I went out last week and we got ice cream in town and we went to a place, and it was, you know, two, I think they even call them like mini scoops.

[00:26:11] Chris Spear: And I think with tax and throwing a couple bucks for a tip, it was over $12 for two mini scoops. And. It was good, but in the back of your mind, you're like, man, I could have bought a lot of half gallons of ice cream at the grocery store. So, there is a kind of a break point where I think people, are like, is it really worth it?

[00:26:27] Chris Spear: Can we spend that much? I mean, I've got two kids, so four of us go out for ice cream. It's like, I don't know, 25, $30 for four of us to have ice cream at a shop. That gets to be a little tough in some respects. I mean, we can do it, but. , I do sometimes think like, I don't know, that's probably more than I wanna spend 

[00:26:43] Takeshi Nishikawa: as a business and small business.

[00:26:45] Takeshi Nishikawa: And you have to provide, like I was saying earlier, like more than just a product. I think if you're serving commodity item, yes, they're the cheaper place. Uh, like for example, books and stuff. If you go a local bookstore, why do they go there? You can go to amazon.com and buy it and it would be cheaper. [00:27:00] But I think it has to be more connection and I think more, uh, broader understanding of what the business model is.

[00:27:06] Takeshi Nishikawa: To every person who's is in the area. And I think that's really like, you know, like one of the things that I'm working on today, like, you know, I'm really like, you know, like going door to door, like getting to know my neighbors. Yeah. Getting to know the other restaurant owners, other business owners, because , those are the people who's gonna support each other during the tough time.

[00:27:24] Takeshi Nishikawa: And I just can't play that game with a large manufacturer and then charge beat on the price. Yeah. You know, like I think if you are for the cheapest. The fastest option. Like we can be it, and I'm just gonna be honest from the beginning, but if you want a super amazing, , scoop that, you wanna come back to , maybe not the super special occasion, but it's just doing things less, but, , focusing more on the quality.

[00:27:46] Takeshi Nishikawa: I think that goes within a lot of different things, whether it's knife, like, you know, you can buy okay knife every year. Like 12, or you can just buy one amazing knife and use it for 12 years, you know? [00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Chris Spear: Oh, for sure. , and you know, I, I think it's important to support your local economies.

[00:28:04] Chris Spear: , and I've tried to teach my kids that as my kids are older, , you know, going to TGI Fridays is very different than going to, , the mom and pop restaurant down the street. And when you're going to one of these chain restaurants, and I. God knows who owns it or where the money's going.

[00:28:17] Chris Spear: Probably to some corporation it's very different than, , supporting someone who has their own business. And me as a business owner, you know, that's important as well. I always appreciate when people hire me 'cause there's a lot of choices for where you could dine. And when someone chooses to hire me and listen, my dinners have started at over a hundred dollars a person more than 10 years ago, and I've.

[00:28:35] Chris Spear: People who pay $250 a head for dinner in their homes. And I know that's not for everyone. It's not for most people. But that's the experience I wanna provide and that's what it costs for my time and my products. And just how you convey that message, how you position yourself in the market and are you doing a good job explaining what people are getting for that price point.

[00:28:57] Takeshi Nishikawa: Yeah, I think I, I think that's really important. And also , the fact of the matter [00:29:00] is everything is more expensive, whether it is, , dairy, you know, you name it, everything is more expensive and, , labor and hourly wage increasing, things like that.

[00:29:08] Takeshi Nishikawa: But also like enough front, like I do wanna pay people as much as I can, as, you know, like within, within what I, you know, what business.

[00:29:21] Takeshi Nishikawa: See if I can pay minimum wage and get away with it. Just like, um, we're trying with , , our product. I wanna do the best job on every front and, , internal, , guest experience, which is like, you know, employee experience is really important to me and treating everyone, professionally, but also , what is the, maximum amount that I can really pay , and still sustain the business because care about, you know, but.

[00:29:42] Chris Spear: And that's how you create a good business long term. , if you can retain employees, first of all, the cost of turnover and hiring new people is a lot. , and I think if you can just, , build a good team and retain them for a long time, that's ideal. It, it's always how I viewed it when I was running kitchens.

[00:29:57] Chris Spear: I don't have any employees now except [00:30:00] people who help me out every now and then. But, um, I think building a, a strong team from the start is really important. And I know you're really focused on the experience and the way it looks, but have you thought about potentially creating a product to sell to maybe restaurants, not like commercial in stores, but maybe you've thought about that, but like, have you thought about getting your, your ice cream into someone else's restaurant where maybe they're scooping it or making it a component in a plated dessert at someone's high-end restaurant?

[00:30:29] Takeshi Nishikawa: I think although the possibility , once the, uh, the production scales, and that's definitely within my, , operational roadmap to be able to tap into the wholesale market because myself, again, operating so many years in the district, like there's a massive network of chefs and, you know, don't have to be like, , Japanese restaurant.

[00:30:46] Takeshi Nishikawa: But I think there are a lot of people who. Happy to use product or when they have a certain TC menu component and they just need outsource, , that component to somebody else so they can trust I, that's a possibility. But I think all these things [00:31:00] and.

[00:31:02] Takeshi Nishikawa: Definitely something that I'm focused on. And again, just not like day one, maybe year two, year three, I think those probably make sense. And I think just like restaurant, there's gonna only need so many seats and so many turns. To make it profitable and also economically viable.

[00:31:18] Takeshi Nishikawa: , I think wholesale. Retail sales, , events and all these things, I think make sense. You know, if you have 120 seat, , if you turn it twice at 240, that that's the max you can do maybe more. But then, like per person experience started starting decay because somebody's gonna feel like they're being rushed and things like that.

[00:31:35] Takeshi Nishikawa: So I think that's why I. A lot of people who I met and who I'm networking today or very little to do with the restaurant, and some people are just like, you know, certain event venues, , certain museums, , certain embassies, , obviously you can't like, you know, like name the specifics. But, , I think those are the things that I'm definitely willing to collaborate because I think that's where, so I ultimately, I think I do see the [00:32:00] revenue being generated from outside of the.

[00:32:02] Takeshi Nishikawa: Actually gonna be greater than , what I produce , and get sold inside. So I mean, shop itself is like place where people can come by, but also it a production facility where that facilitate other events and.

[00:32:15] Chris Spear: How do you pick, , collaborators? Like think of the people that you wanna work with.

[00:32:19] Chris Spear: Do you have a list? Is it people? Is it relationships you want to grow? How do you decide who you maybe want to do something fun with? I. 

[00:32:27] Takeshi Nishikawa: I think it, it falls into a different bucket. I think one is , obviously professionals or, or producers who's doing amazing work. A lot of people domestically and also internationally who I've known over the years and, I just wanna work with because I'm a huge fan or I really love their work and all that stuff.

[00:32:48] Takeshi Nishikawa: , I think that that's a one kind. Certain ingredient or producers who I really wanna highlight because I love the product. , so that's another kind, [00:33:00] and that is also like, strategical picks. , so by choosing to work with certain people, it opens more doors. 

[00:33:08] Takeshi Nishikawa: For example, in my case it, it might sound a little obvious, but , I've been working, , pretty closely with, , embassy Japan or, , like their community because again, there's a lot of vast network and also as I look for certain ingredients can connect with certain people, , back in Japan, it really helpful.

[00:33:25] Takeshi Nishikawa: I also myself, , being from there, , I recently reached out to local government and , continuously work with certain purveyors and certain people to really highlight, what the city and professor can provide. I'm not from like Tokyo OK Kyoto. , but there's so many amazing things out there. 

[00:33:41] Takeshi Nishikawa: But, I think whether it's museums or different things, I think I try to think is the long term ultimately, like, I don't know how the, , dots gonna connect looking forward, but more people will get to connect and really be able to collaborate.

[00:33:52] Takeshi Nishikawa: I think, , only good think can come out . 

[00:33:54] Chris Spear: Well, thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate having you today. Thank 

[00:33:58] Takeshi Nishikawa: you for having me again. It was super 

[00:33:59] Chris Spear: [00:34:00] fun. And, uh, to all of our listeners, this is Chris with Chefs at Restaurants Much, and have a great week. You're still here. The podcast's over if you are indeed still here.

[00:34:10] Chris Spear: Thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place, and that's chefs without restaurants.org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter, get connected in our free Facebook group, and join our personal Chef Catering and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads.

[00:34:27] Chris Spear: And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page where you'll find products and services I love you. Pay nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission, which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links.

[00:34:41] Chris Spear: As always, you can reach out to me on Instagram at Chefs Without Restaurants, or send me an email at Chefs Without restaurants@gmail.com. Thanks so much.