Reimagining Hungarian Cuisine with Chef Jeremy Salamon of Agi’s Counter

In this episode of Chefs Without Restaurants, host Chris Spear sits down with Jeremy Salamon, the talented chef behind Agi’s Counter in Brooklyn and author of the newly released cookbook, Second Generation. Jeremy, a second-generation Hungarian Jew, has made waves in the culinary world, earning accolades like a James Beard Award nomination and a spot on Bon Appetit's Best New Restaurants list in 2022.

Jeremy shares his journey from working in some of New York’s finest kitchens, to how his Hungarian heritage inspired him to open Agi’s Counter. We dive deep into his modern interpretations of traditional Hungarian dishes, the personal stories behind his cookbook, and how family traditions have influenced his career. Jeremy also discusses his approach to cooking, how his Hungarian-Jewish roots shape his dishes, and the importance of maintaining authenticity while innovating in the kitchen.

JEREMY SALAMON and AGI's COUNTER
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The Agi's Counter Website
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Transcript

[00:00:00] Chris Spear: What happens when a chef takes recipes from his Hungarian Jewish heritage and gives them a modern twist? You get something totally new, yet deeply rooted in tradition. Today's guest, James Beard nominated chef Jeremy Solomon, has done just that. His restaurant, Oggy's Counter, was hailed as one of Bon Appétit's best new restaurants in 2022.

[00:00:22] Chris Spear: And his debut cookbook, Second Generation, is reimagining Hungarian cuisine for a new era. But it wasn't always an easy journey for Jeremy. Balancing heritage, creativity, and the pressures of New York's competitive food scene is no small feat. So how did he get here? And what can we learn from his approach, from honoring the past while innovating for the future?

[00:00:43] Chris Spear: Stay tuned, because this is a conversation you won't want to miss. This is Chris Spear, and you're listening to Chefs Without Restaurants, the show where I usually speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting. I have 32 [00:01:00] years of working in kitchens, but not restaurants, and currently operate a personal chef service during dinner parties in the Washington, D.

[00:01:06] Chris Spear: C. area. So yes, today I'm joined by Jeremy Solomon, a chef with deep Hungarian Jewish roots who's taken his heritage and reimagined it in the heart of Brooklyn. His restaurant, Auggie's Counter, is a tribute to his grandmothers. In this episode, we talk about the challenges of preserving tradition while finding your own creative voice.

[00:01:26] Chris Spear: We obviously talk about his passion for Hungarian cuisine and what it's like to balance the pressures of the modern culinary world with the nostalgia of family recipes. We also talk about the fact that he went to culinary school and he dropped out. We're not going to harp on that, but I did find it interesting to talk to him about, you know, what prompted him to do that because I think many people who go to culinary school, once you're a year in, just decide, you know, you have the sunk cost, might as well finish this thing out.

[00:01:53] Chris Spear: But we're really here today because his new cookbook, Second Generation, is out on Tuesday, September 17th. [00:02:00] Having had the privilege of getting a sneak peek, I have to say, I think it's a great book that you're going to love. You've probably heard me talk about pimento cheese, so I was particularly interested in finding out what Hungarian pimento cheese is.

[00:02:13] Chris Spear: And we also talk about lamb borscht, which is something he calls lorscht, and the fact that his famous cheesecake recipe is in this cookbook. I think there's something for everybody in this book. So go check it out. And before we jump in, if you're enjoying the podcast, don't forget to hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.

[00:02:31] Chris Spear: And if so inclined, please leave a review. Reviews help other listeners find the show and ensure we continue bringing you awesome guests like Jeremy. As always, thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Hey, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Oh, thanks for having me. So, um, looking forward to talking to you about, uh, your cooking and upcoming cookbook, which is exciting.

[00:02:55] Chris Spear: Are you ready for your cookbook to be coming out soon? 

[00:02:58] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, it's, it's funny [00:03:00] because I've been staring at it for the last three years, working on it for God knows how many years, so I, like, I know I'm proud of it, it's beautiful, but now I'm just nervous about how the world's gonna perceive it, so, um, so it's, it's, it's a little nerve wracking, yeah.

[00:03:14] Chris Spear: How long has that process been? When did you start? 

[00:03:18] Jeremy Salamon: I started working on the manuscript for the cookbook probably about seven, eight years ago, and then the manuscript actually became like the seed for Auggie's Counter, which is my restaurant, so, um, Seven 

[00:03:33] Chris Spear: or eight years ago, that's a long, that's a long time.

[00:03:36] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, I, I had this idea and I figured it was, I knew it was something that was special and worth exploring. And my problem was, is that I was, you know, I didn't have a platform. I didn't have, I didn't have enough followers on Instagram as publishers will tell you. 

[00:03:54] Chris Spear: I just talked about this with someone, uh, a branding and marketing specialist last week on our episode, which [00:04:00] is a sad thing.

[00:04:01] Chris Spear: You know, that you have to have this, you have to come with this built in huge following and say, these people already love me. Like, please, you know, help me get this book out in the world. 

[00:04:10] Jeremy Salamon: It doesn't necessarily always matter, you know, the content of the book or, or the subject matter. It's just sometimes it just depends on the number of followers you have.

[00:04:18] Jeremy Salamon: So, but, you know, c'est la vie, that's this day and age. 

[00:04:21] Chris Spear: Yeah. Well, um, a little background for you and my listeners, I don't have a, I have some experience in this type of cooking. So I grew up in New England eating very traditional, like, American foods and so forth. I don't feel like I had an upbringing where my relatives had any interesting heritage.

[00:04:40] Chris Spear: You know, we all came over from England on the Mayflower and, you know, 

yeah, 

[00:04:44] Chris Spear: pretty bland type cooking. But interestingly enough, I somehow found myself running two separate. Jewish retirement communities, uh, in pretty hardcore kosher kitchens, which I had no experience with that. [00:05:00] And the interesting thing, and I'm, I'm sure, you know, from having grandmothers who cook many of these types of food is they're all like trying to give me their recipes, but then also judging what I'm making.

[00:05:09] Chris Spear: So here I am, you know, like New England boy now cooking this woman's, you know, Maybe Hungarian recipe that she hands me because that's what they want to have and now I'm cooking it for like 600 people and I've never even eaten this before so yeah, 

[00:05:22] Jeremy Salamon: it's a and they're also telling you that you're not fat enough That's it.

[00:05:27] Jeremy Salamon: Nobody has 

[00:05:28] Chris Spear: ever told me. I'm not fat enough. I'm like 270. So that's not a thing with me Maybe with you. I feel 

[00:05:33] Jeremy Salamon: like don't know like my grandmother. I mean I You know, went through those like awkward teen years and, you know, it just my weight like would fluctuate and especially because I was cooking in kitchens and, uh, it was always like I was either not fat enough and not fed well enough or I was not skinny enough and therein lies the Jewish grandmother.

[00:05:55] Jeremy Salamon: Complex. 

[00:05:56] Chris Spear: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I don't have my own Jewish [00:06:00] grandmother, but I feel like I've had hundreds of them, if that makes any sense. No, totally. Especially to anyone who's, who's done that kind of thing, working in like a retirement community. Well, it's a noble deed, so, good 

[00:06:09] Jeremy Salamon: for 

[00:06:09] Chris Spear: you. Yes. Um, so, you have a restaurant in Brooklyn and you have a cookbook coming out.

[00:06:16] Chris Spear: How do you describe your food and cuisine? Because it's definitely, it seems to be rooted in, Jewish and Eastern European and, and Hungarian. But I know you also do a lot of kind of modern twists on things. So what are, what are your restaurant and cookbook? Um, like, 

[00:06:32] Jeremy Salamon: yeah, the, the restaurant and the cookbook are one in the same, but also two very different things at the same time, uh, the restaurant.

[00:06:42] Jeremy Salamon: So Aggie's counter was born in November of 2021. And, uh, I always knew I would have a restaurant that was like my end goal. One. When I had, I'd been working on the cookbook, but when I started shopping the manuscript [00:07:00] around, I said, well, I should, if this is not going to work now, I should do what I know how to do.

[00:07:06] Jeremy Salamon: And that's working around, you know, open up a restaurant. I mean, not that I, you know, I've had experience opening restaurants, but obviously not, uh, the one, uh, putting all the money. So I. Took that concept of the book more or less of exploring Eastern European and Hungarian and this modern Jewish New York diner cuisine and putting it into a restaurant.

[00:07:37] Jeremy Salamon: And I was really inspired by the grand cafes of Eastern Europe. Um, I had spent a lot of time out in Hungary and Austria, and I wanted to take the concept of an Eastern European, like, grand cafe. Downsize it and cram it into a Crown Heights, uh, restaurant, uh, in Brooklyn. So that was, [00:08:00] that's how Augie's counter came to be.

[00:08:02] Chris Spear: When was the, when was the first time you went to Hungary? Like, did you go when you were younger or is it more of a recent thing? 

[00:08:09] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, I went to Hungary when I was in the first time. And when I was like seven or eight years 

[00:08:14] Chris Spear: old. And, 

[00:08:15] Jeremy Salamon: uh, I have, I have family out there. Uh, my grandmother, so my grandmother, Agi, uh, her nephew, um, Peter, uh, lives out there with his partner, Robert, and then his nephew, who's much younger, uh, Ferry and his family.

[00:08:33] Jeremy Salamon: So I go and I visit them, uh, from time to time. 

[00:08:36] Chris Spear: So you had one grandmother who was Hungarian, the other one, what was her background? 

[00:08:41] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, so Nana Arlene, she grew up in the Bronx, born and raised, and is originally, well, her family is Sephardic, so it's like Jewish Greek, and same thing as Hungarians, lots of food, lots of alcohol, family is always, you [00:09:00] know, at the center of, of attention, and yeah, so I, I kind of had very two similar worlds on, on either end of the, the grandma spectrum.

[00:09:09] Chris Spear: So did you grow up in that stereotypical like you hear all the chef stories like I grew up with the love of cooking because of my grandmother, which I didn't actually have. But was that your experience like that your grandmothers had this, um, strong influence on you and cooking? 

[00:09:24] Jeremy Salamon: Yes and no. My, so Grandma Auggie was actually, I mean, she really pushed me out of the kitchen.

[00:09:31] Jeremy Salamon: She didn't think that a man should cook. Uh, so that was just like very difficult for her to wrap her head around anytime I had questions about food. And, um, and while I enjoyed her cooking, I think it didn't really occur to me that what she was making was, you know, Really unique and special. I thought like maybe everyone had a Hungarian grandmother, you know, I don't know.

[00:09:54] Jeremy Salamon: It's just I was young and, you know, naive and my other grandmother, [00:10:00] um, Arlene was definitely the one that like made really extravagant meals with the was the Martha Stewart of the family. Um, and she got me my 1st kitchen job, so I would say that she very much so pushed me into into well, I guess she like, nurtured my love for food and cooking.

[00:10:16] Chris Spear: Oh, that's very cool. And um, I saw you still have a blog from like when you were really young that's if you dig in the right places on the internet and you still have that up, you know, I like to do a little investigative journalism before I have these interviews, but you still have this, um, blog from like over a decade ago.

[00:10:34] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, it's not, it's not active anymore. Uh, but it is, you know, I, I thought I, I thought I, it's, it's hard to get things off the internet, uh, as I learned, but I also, at one point I just stopped trying and I was like, maybe it'll just move to the dark web and no, no one will know it exists anymore growing up in, in kitchens and in, in, in a very specific time of kitchens, like 2000, you know, in the early two thousands, [00:11:00] um, Was a weird and bizarre time because people were also, you know, the internet was still like in ways fresh and, you know, maybe it still is, but, you know, having a blog was not something that a young line cook I think had back in the seventies, obviously, or the eighties or the nineties.

[00:11:21] Jeremy Salamon: And so, yeah, I, I think, The blog was because everyone else was, everybody else was doing it, and I probably saw, you know, I saw like Julia and Julia, you know, the movie, and I read the book, and I was like, yeah, I could have a blog, and I didn't have a lot of friends who cooked, and no, none of my friends cooked, and I wanted to be able to connect with people my age, hopefully, that, that did share my interest in it, and, and I did, I wound up making like pen pals, and, uh, I had like some followers, and it, Got me into some really cool kitchens and I got to interview some chefs.

[00:11:58] Jeremy Salamon: So I don't [00:12:00] regret it. Uh, but it, but because I have nothing to compare it to, if that makes any sense, like there were chefs, right? Like Anthony Bourdain or, uh, Jody Williams or Andrew Carmelini. Like they grew up with like a rigorous, I went to France and trained in a Michelin star restaurant and I'm like.

[00:12:15] Jeremy Salamon: But I had a blog. So it's a weird time. It was a weird time. 

[00:12:20] Chris Spear: You know, my, um, my personal chef business, it's called Perfect Little Bites. And before it was a business, it was actually a blog. Um, and if you dig deep enough, I was just thinking about this yesterday. My first recipe, I made a Doritos panna cotta.

[00:12:35] Chris Spear: And I took fresh salsa. You know how when you make your fresh, like the whole bottom is just like watery with tomato juice. I turned that into a caramel sauce. It was like a Doritos panna cotta with like this tomato water caramel sauce. I'm like, like, should I, like, I feel like this should come down. You know, it was like from like.

[00:12:51] Chris Spear: Fourteen years ago. And it's still like, No, 

[00:12:54] Jeremy Salamon: the world should know about it. 

[00:12:55] Chris Spear: Well, I'm thinking it's going to be a fun like throwback Thursday post one day. Like, look how far I've [00:13:00] come from this nonsense that I used to do. But, um, yeah, I digress. Uh, and then you, you went to CIA, which, um, you actually did not.

[00:13:09] Chris Spear: Finish out at CIA, right? You, uh, went. So what I want to ask you about that is how do you know that it's not right for you? Because a lot of people would, you know, sunk costs. I've already got, you know, a year in or whatever, and some money, I guess I'm just going to see this thing through. A lot of parents I think would say like, just finish out and get your degree.

[00:13:27] Chris Spear: So what, like, how did you know that culinary school wasn't right for you? 

[00:13:32] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, I, I mean, I come from a working background. I worked in kitchens through high school. And, um, I also, my, my father and my grandfather owned a, uh, pharmacy and, um, surgical supply business. So in the summers, that's how I earned my money and worked behind the cash register.

[00:13:51] Jeremy Salamon: And I just, I was a. Busy body and I just loved learning on the job and it for all the [00:14:00] like the chefs that I had worked for in Florida. All had gone to culinary school and most of them had gone to the CIA. So it was just I was kind of brainwashed into thinking like this is this was the end all be all and I had to go to school or else I wouldn't be a successful chef and.

[00:14:18] Jeremy Salamon: I really didn't think twice about that. So I went and I got through almost my first year, uh, right up until my externship, you go out, they send, they send you out into the real world. Um, and I, while a lot of, uh, peers went to go on and work in hotels or resorts or cruises, uh, I really wanted to work at a restaurant called prune, uh, a very small restaurant in the East village at the time.

[00:14:48] Jeremy Salamon: And. Um, so I left to go there, and I just, I fell in love with it, and I didn't, like, my dream was to always work in New York City, and [00:15:00] I was there, and I was, you know, not really making any money, and, uh, lived in literally, like, literally a shoebox, uh, my bed took up the entire room, and, but I loved every second of it, you know, I was like a 19 year old, you were just, I don't know, everything, it was just so fresh and, and new.

[00:15:16] Jeremy Salamon: So I, um, I had done some listening to a radio show, uh, that had Andrew Carmelini on it, and he was talking about whether to go to culinary school or not, and he wound up through this radio show, solidifying my decision to not go back. 

[00:15:35] Chris Spear: The power of radio folks. Here we are on a podcast. You know, maybe this will inspire someone to drop out of culinary school.

[00:15:41] Chris Spear: Yeah. Just as, just as school year is getting ready to start. No, it's, it's hard. I mean, I went to Johnson and Wales. I went for four years. It was really expensive. I've talked a lot about that. And You know, I graduated in 98 so it was a number of years ago and things were very different and people say, would you do it over again?

[00:15:58] Chris Spear: And you know, it's, it's hard to look at [00:16:00] that, but, um, in today's day and age, I don't think I'd recommend it. Now, it might be the right fit for some people, but if I could, if I was graduating from like high school today, I think there's a lot better options for me, um, that I would, instead of pursuing culinary school.

[00:16:15] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, it's, I mean, just to reiterate, yeah, it's definitely not, it's, it's made for some people, it's not made for some people and it just really, like, if you were going to go be a manager or a chef, like in a hotel or maybe like in a resort, I don't know, like there's different. I think different people respond to school differently.

[00:16:35] Jeremy Salamon: So I feel just for me, it just wasn't in the wasn't in the cards. But, um, but yeah, I also had to pay. I literally pay the price and that was, uh, paying off my student loans for another, you know, You know, 12 years. 

[00:16:48] Chris Spear: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Many. I've been there. Many of my listeners have been there. But, you know, New York City, I can't, I've never worked in New York, but I can't imagine a better place.

[00:16:57] Chris Spear: Like, if you're looking to really learn to be [00:17:00] a cook and a chef, I mean, if you're in New York City, yeah, you're gonna learn what you need to do. 

[00:17:06] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, it was, this really was, I felt, I mean, I felt like I owned the city and maybe a lot of. Uh, young cooks kind of feel that way. But just everything is, yeah, it's so fresh and you're big eyed and there's all the old cookbook stores here.

[00:17:22] Jeremy Salamon: And, um, there's. J. B. Prince, that, that kitchen store that's like all the way on top of a, a skyscraper. And like, you have to take the secret elevator to get there. And the 

[00:17:32] Chris Spear: Mecca of food supply stores. Yeah. 

[00:17:34] Jeremy Salamon: You're running around to different spice shops because, you know, the chef told you, you know, hands you some pocket money and you're running through the streets.

[00:17:41] Jeremy Salamon: I don't know. That was, that was my experience. So, um, I, and I loved every second of it. Yeah. 

[00:17:46] Chris Spear: So how does that move into you opening your own place, which is a huge undertaking and you said 2021. So, um, I'm not going to say post pandemic because we were still very much in it, you know, so the process of [00:18:00] getting a restaurant open in a very weird time, uh, in probably one of the most expensive cities in the country and all of that.

[00:18:07] Chris Spear: How did opening a restaurant come about? 

[00:18:10] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, I, I, it's all blur. Parts of it are, are, are blur for sure, but it's a long story. But the synopsis is that I, I had moved out to Los Angeles actually prior to 2021. And to be with my boyfriend, we were doing long distance at the time. And I, so I spent about. Two, two, three years out in L.

[00:18:37] Jeremy Salamon: A. And I just kept telling him I need to go back. I need to go back. Um, that's where I love New York. That's where my heart is. And, and when I go back, I need to open up a restaurant. And we, the pandemic had just started. And I think everybody was, you know, like everybody was doing, you're, you know, kind of just sitting on your hands and [00:19:00] thinking about life, lots of free time, lots of free time.

[00:19:04] Jeremy Salamon: So I said, well, I might as well just piecing this business plan together a little bit more seriously. And so that, that came to fruition. And then also the, um, the financial part of it, I, I had no clue. I mean, I had some savings. But I really, you know, a restaurant can take hundreds of thousands of dollars to open and even millions.

[00:19:24] Jeremy Salamon: And, um, so I decided to just turn to the people and I launched a Kickstarter, which is a little unheard of for a restaurant. Um, yeah, it's rare. 

[00:19:37] Chris Spear: I've supported a couple of those, but you don't see a lot of them. 

[00:19:40] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, this it's, you know, Kickstarter or these sort of webs, you know, crowdfunding websites are made for, you know, things that are more tangible, like that'll get shipped over the country, like a game or send me a cookbook.

[00:19:51] Chris Spear: Like I bought, I backed some cookbooks on Kickstarter. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:54] Jeremy Salamon: So it was, I didn't know how it would turn out. We asked for 65, 000 [00:20:00] and, um, when we raised it, which was amazing and a total surprise. Um, and as soon as that happened, we came back to New York. And started looking for spaces and I wound up falling in love with a space that I had my very first pop up in like years.

[00:20:18] Jeremy Salamon: before that. Uh, so it was just kind of kismet that that would be the space and, uh, Auggie's counter was born. Yeah. 

[00:20:27] Chris Spear: Wow. And it seems like such a very personal restaurant based on, you know, it's your heritage and, you know, cuisines that you love. When did you start cooking? Have you cooked that food professionally before that?

[00:20:40] Chris Spear: Like, had you done Hungarian, Eastern European, like in any kind of restaurant setting? 

[00:20:45] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. So when I took, uh, So before I moved out to LA, I was the chef of a restaurant called the Eddie. And I also took over at sister restaurant, the wallflower. Um, I started there as a, as a line cook and worked my way up to Sue [00:21:00] and eventually came back and took over.

[00:21:02] Jeremy Salamon: And, um, I had been doing these like pop ups that were re imagining Eastern European food was like heavily market driven and the owner of the Eddie and wallflower had approached me and he's like, you should really Take this and do it at the eddies. So, um, so that's what I did and it's funny because there's like some There like the beginnings of Auggies counter and like the food and the style were like there but obviously was Received very differently because I think of just like the time where it was located It was in East Village, um, and maybe people didn't really know what to make of it.

[00:21:44] Jeremy Salamon: I think post pandemic, people are really open to a lot of different foods now. Like, there's more, like, food is more story driven. I feel like that's, I don't know, personally, that's what I feel like people are into now. So, which I, it's [00:22:00] fantastic. So I feel like my, it's, Type of cooking is maybe more like people are more open to it.

[00:22:06] Jeremy Salamon: Now. 

[00:22:07] Chris Spear: Well in New York is unlike any other city Probably anywhere in the world, but especially with the variety of food, but you know for so many years, you know Obviously in this country, it seems like we've been You know, the cuisine's been French and Italian and then you know a lot of Asian Chinese And then like Mexican but you didn't see as many at least not in my travels and where I've lived So many of these kind of European, Hungarian type restaurants.

[00:22:34] Chris Spear: Is that new ish to the New York, New York city area as well? 

[00:22:41] Jeremy Salamon: It's interesting because it, it isn't, but it is, I think in the way that I'm presenting it, it is, I mean, Eastern Europeans have been in New York city. Since the dawn of New York City and, um, little hungry and, uh, little, [00:23:00] like, uh, Ukraine and, you know, there's the whole Polish area and it's just, there's, so it's, it's everywhere here.

[00:23:07] Jeremy Salamon: There's, you know, there's an entire festival dedicated to Borscht, um, and, and vodkas. So 

[00:23:13] Chris Spear: it's pretty niche. 

[00:23:14] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. So it's, I mean, it's a part of the, it's a part of the fabric of New York City, but I wasn't seeing chefs. approach this food in, in a different light. Uh, which, uh, you know, was questioning why that was.

[00:23:34] Chris Spear: So, I don't like to use the, I mean, maybe you can use the term. Is your, so your food is modern. Would you say, like, modern versions of it? Like, taking the classics and then maybe really focusing on what's fresh and local in the market. Maybe incorporating a, a, a, uh, Different technique or something. And I guess is this food that your Hungarian relatives would recognize as Hungarian food?

[00:23:56] Chris Spear: No, 

[00:23:57] Jeremy Salamon: the answer is no [00:24:00] and that's okay because I don't claim to be authentic or traditional people always We'll always get Hungarians or older, usually it's an older generation, um, or older Jews come in, um, that want to experience something, uh, you know, nostalgic and they want to relive a certain very specific memory.

[00:24:24] Jeremy Salamon: And while that's beautiful, that's not something I'm here to do. And, and they want that authentic, that taste and, and exactly what their grandmother made. And that's just, that's not what I'm doing. I'm, it's inspired by. And I stretch it, and I pull it, and it takes, it takes us in different directions, so, yeah, sometimes it's a hard, hard line to walk.

[00:24:47] Chris Spear: What are some of those favorite dishes of yours that are clearly inspired by, but also have an interesting twist? 

[00:24:55] Jeremy Salamon: It's all kind of mashed up, so it's hard, it's hard to pick one, but I guess, like, [00:25:00] the semolina dumplings on the, on our dinner menu. That was a recipe that my grandmother had made, and, um, they weren't, you know, they were very, like, rustic shaped dumplings, but they were very airy, and she had them, and she would serve them next to, like, braised chicken, or goulash, or some sort of stew, and I wanted to take those dumplings and make them the center focus of a dish.

[00:25:24] Jeremy Salamon: And so I had to rework the recipe to make them even lighter and more perfectly round, uh, cause that's how I imagined, uh, that's how I wanted them to be. And we kind of changed the sets up and there's been a version with like cured egg yolk and crispy chicken skin. And we've had a bunch of really different, beautiful cheeses with it and shaved Romanesco squash.

[00:25:47] Jeremy Salamon: And so, yeah, I took something that was like, was traditional in one sense and nostalgic to me. But I made it the main focus and also changed up the dish entirely. [00:26:00] Like it wasn't just a side companion anymore. It was the main star of the dish. 

[00:26:03] Chris Spear: Well, a lot of that home style cooking doesn't really translate well to a more finer dining kind of experience either.

[00:26:12] Chris Spear: Cause I've tried to do the same thing. Like some of the dishes I grew up with and you're like, that's kind of ugly Brown food and it's, you know, not a lot of. fresh produce, you know, I, my mom had recipes where we're using canned mushrooms. It's like, why would anyone use canned mushrooms? Like even just get button mushrooms at the grocery store, but you know, so many of those recipes.

[00:26:31] Chris Spear: So taking some of those dishes that I loved as a kid and making them a little more chef y, I guess, if you will. 

[00:26:37] Jeremy Salamon: Also, Hungarian food isn't like, you know, it is, it can be like brown food. A lot of it is, it's, I mean, it's delicious, but it's like this braised, very heavy food. And I actually remember, um, the late Mimi Sheridan, uh, had come into the Eddie and she, It was in the middle of summer, it was July, [00:27:00] um, she used to be a food critic, and she was like, I don't know how old she was at this point, maybe like in her 80s, and she had asked me for, she goes, I came here because I heard that you make Hungarian food, and I was actually in the dining room talking to her, and I said, well, no, it's inspired by.

[00:27:17] Jeremy Salamon: And she goes, well, too bad because I came here in the middle of July to eat a veal goulash, which would be essentially like this like heavy veal type thing. Yeah. Stew in the middle of when it's like 100 degrees outside. And it was just like, this is why I don't prepare it because it's just not, that's not relevant.

[00:27:35] Jeremy Salamon: It's not 

[00:27:37] Chris Spear: seasonal. It doesn't make sense. Like I want something light, maybe chilled borscht, but not like a heavy stew. 

[00:27:43] Jeremy Salamon: Right. So it was just, um, it was, uh, I think, I think a great way to present the conundrum that has, has plagued me on and off throughout, uh, my career. 

[00:27:55] Chris Spear: So I guess one of the big things is you have a cookbook out and I'd love to talk to you [00:28:00] about your cookbook since that's going to be rolling up on us soon.

[00:28:02] Chris Spear: So tell me about the cookbook, which you said you started like seven, eight years ago. And here we are in about a month. 

[00:28:09] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, I was actually looking through some older emails the other day, um, from like, 2016, uh, where it was like, hi, I'm Jeremy. I'm writing a cookbook. And I was wondering if you could help me figure out how to do this.

[00:28:25] Jeremy Salamon: And yeah, to be here now is, is bizarre, but in a really great way. And, um, yeah, the name of the cookbook is second generation. And which applies to me, I'm a second generation American Hungarian, so it's not the follow up to a cookbook called First Generation, which is a beautiful cookbook, but the, um, and that was debated with the publisher if people would think it's a follow up, and I said, I don't, I don't, it's not possible, so, um, But yeah, it's, uh, it was [00:29:00] photographed by Ed Anderson, who is really like my dream photographer, and he's done some really beautiful books, and I co wrote it with, uh, Casey Alsass, um, who's a terrific, uh, cookbook writer, and I wanted it to be a book that felt like It had been sitting on your shelf for years, like I wanted it to be a book that was natural to look at and to reach for, and could be a part of your library, and I think the biggest takeaway that I want people to have from the book is to make these recipes and then spin their own second, third, fourth generation version of it and incorporate it into their traditions and their family meals.

[00:29:46] Jeremy Salamon: And, um, you know, I talk about that in the book. It's like, there's, there's no one way to do this. It can go as far as you want to take it. Um, and I think that's just kind of the beauty of the book. 

[00:29:59] Chris Spear: So do you [00:30:00] have, um, like classics from your restaurant on there? Like if people are regulars to your restaurant, are they going to be able to open up the book and find things that they've had at the restaurant?

[00:30:10] Jeremy Salamon: Yes. So quite a few things, the deviled eggs, the chicken liver mousse, uh, the stuffed fried squash blossoms with the Hungarian pimento cheese. Um, there is the, the cheesecake recipe is in there where we're kind of known for our cheesecake. So, um, I did supply that. Um, However, the tuna melt recipe, which, if there are people who are listening to this and they've been to Aggie's Counter, they might be excited by that the tuna melt recipe is in there.

[00:30:39] Jeremy Salamon: Um, but I can publicly say that I've taken out a couple of ingredients. Uh, but it's the only recipe I've done that for, and I, um, because it's different, it's different to replicate it at home. So I wanted to, uh, Make sure that it was distinctly different. 

[00:30:54] Chris Spear: You're gonna have people at home upset. 

[00:30:55] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, I mean like I get, I get it.

[00:30:58] Jeremy Salamon: But, [00:31:00] yeah I feel like for the tuna melt it was, I mean also you have to like, confit the tuna and you have to have like a lot of oil to do that and I think so it's, it's There was a, uh, a rightful way to present it to home cooks and 

[00:31:13] Chris Spear: Well, you, you do have to streamline it for home cooks because there's the flip side of I have all these cookbooks that I've never, like, why do I have the Mugaritz cookbook?

[00:31:19] Chris Spear: I don't know, like, I'm not making anything out of it, right? Like you, as a chef, you have all these books quite often and they're actually not the books I'm cooking. I'm not making anything out of the Noma cookbook. Like it just doesn't make sense. I want a book that I'm going to cook from. And if I pick up your book and it has too many steps, like I work a couple jobs.

[00:31:38] Chris Spear: I, you know, I have my own businesses. I have kids, like I want something I can get on the table tonight when I get off this call with you. 

[00:31:44] Jeremy Salamon: And I think also for chefs, you know, we have all these cookbooks that we don't necessarily really cook from, but I, at least for me. I use cookbooks and maybe it's true for you, but just to kind of like, when you look at the photos, like the photos are incredibly important and [00:32:00] like, kind of just even the names of the dishes and you kind of.

[00:32:02] Jeremy Salamon: Pull inspiration as you want to browse and you leave like five of them open on your kitchen counter or your office. And you're just kind of browsing through it, collecting data. And that was really important to me when I made the book because I wanted it not just to resonate with home cooks and these second generation, you know, grandkids are.

[00:32:23] Jeremy Salamon: You know, people that were families, but I also wanted chefs to be able to like open it and be like, okay, I see what he's doing. Like there's like, I can look at this too and pull some inspiration from it and not necessarily have to cook from it. So I did a point, like I approached it from that chef perspective as well.

[00:32:40] Chris Spear: What is Hungarian pimento cheese? 

[00:32:43] Jeremy Salamon: So in Hungary, it's called kurzyt, and it's got a lot of dots in it over those and the cheese, and it's a fresh cheese that gets caraway seed whipped into it with raw onion, paprika, sometimes tomato paste, [00:33:00] and, uh, it's a, it's a, it can be a dip. You can spread it on crackers.

[00:33:05] Jeremy Salamon: So I grew up, uh, Spending my summers in the South and I ate a lot of pimento cheese. So I thought this would be a really cool mashup. And so I made my version of curzit and you can eat it with a bag of ruffles, or you can pipe it into some squash blossoms and fry them and they're. So good. 

[00:33:27] Chris Spear: I love that.

[00:33:28] Chris Spear: I'm a big pimento cheese fan. I'm, um, in Maryland now, which is kind of the south ish. So it's like, I feel like every place or many of the places I like have a version of pimento cheese. So I always have a version on my menus and sometimes has kimchi in it. Sometimes it has like Giardiniera in it.

[00:33:44] Chris Spear: Sometimes I smoke the cheese myself. So I'm always looking for a new pimento cheese to eat. Um, so I think I'm gonna have to check that out because I've never heard of that or had it before. 

[00:33:54] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, you'll have to give it a try. 

[00:33:56] Chris Spear: Do you have recipes that you're really drawn to in this book? Like if. [00:34:00] You were to say, these are my favorites.

[00:34:01] Chris Spear: And I know it's probably hard, but like do you have really favorite recipes in this book? 

[00:34:06] Jeremy Salamon: Yes, I do. Uh, as I am flipping through it in my mind I would say there's a recipe for something called lch. Um, I love calling things really dumb names. So, which is a lamb borsch known as che, uh, that doesn't exist other than in this book.

[00:34:26] Jeremy Salamon: And, um, it's this lamb shoulder that gets like braised down and this kind of. Really herbaceous, garlicky borscht, uh, with the golden beets and it's so comforting and it's like this one pot wonder that you can serve with incredible bread and pickles and that'll satisfy an entire family. There's also the The semolina dumpling recipe that I talked about is in that, in there as well, but I do it with radishes that are in season and I use the stems and, uh, you can either do it with like a chicken broth that I have [00:35:00] a specific recipe for or a Parmesan rind broth that works really well with it.

[00:35:05] Jeremy Salamon: And the tongue, the pastrami tongue, I'm sure that sounds a lot of people are going to want to cook tongue. That would 

[00:35:12] Chris Spear: be my first thing that I would, would go for. 

[00:35:14] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. I had to include tongue. I grew up with it. It's, and I've made various, you know, versions of it throughout my career. So, um, I was, I was, I was pretty stubborn about, uh, putting it in there.

[00:35:29] Jeremy Salamon: And the, um, the publisher was like, I don't know. And I was like, unfortunately it's a package deal. You get this book, you get the tongue recipe. 

[00:35:37] Chris Spear: So I'm totally down with that. So you've got at least one person who's going to try and make that. And, uh, I'm sure with so many chefs who listen to this show, we'll have a couple people who will put it on Instagram.

[00:35:49] Chris Spear: Like, tag you, tag, and say, we made it, made the pastrami tongue. 

[00:35:53] Jeremy Salamon: Get the algorithm to pick up on tongue, which is a good thing or a bad thing. 

[00:35:59] Chris Spear: [00:36:00] But I think it's so much a Jewish thing too, right? I mean, like, I have cooked it in places I've worked, you know, I have friends who that was their jam. I mean, yeah, I don't think it's necessarily as common on all American tables, but I think if you're going to do, um, Jewish type cooking, to have that there totally makes sense.

[00:36:17] Chris Spear: Thanks. 

[00:36:18] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, it's, um, and in ways it kind of tastes like brisket. That's how I like people that haven't had it before. That's how I describe it. Uh, when it's cooked just right, it kind of has this like, yeah, that flavor profile or even the texture of it can be kind of briskety, which, um, I don't know, to me, I really loved.

[00:36:34] Jeremy Salamon: So once you braise anything for enough 

[00:36:35] Chris Spear: hours, it all is pretty much the same. 

[00:36:37] Jeremy Salamon: It's all brisket. So yeah. 

[00:36:39] Chris Spear: Yeah. From the technical standpoint, how hard was it for you to write the script? A cookbook, because a lot of chefs, you know, we wing things or you even have like a basic recipe that your cooks can follow.

[00:36:48] Chris Spear: But to have a cookbook that is, you know, you've got to test the recipes and I know you've worked with people. How did you find that process to be? 

[00:36:57] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. Uh, it [00:37:00] was kind of a shit show. I am not going to sugarcoat it and be like, yeah, I, I'm great at math and converting and it was so, it was so natural for me to always write down recipes.

[00:37:13] Jeremy Salamon: No, it was, it was God awful. And in ways it made me much better at writing recipes now and keeping track of them and I learned a lot of lessons from it, but it was definitely a curve ball learning wise on how to, especially to write it for a home cook. But I had my grandmother's read it. I had my mom read it.

[00:37:37] Jeremy Salamon: I had their friends read it. I bought like ingredients for different people, like friends of friends of friends, and they made it with their families. Um, and they would report back to me on how it came out and so definitely a lot of labor went into making sure it was accessible for the home cook. 

[00:37:58] Chris Spear: Are there any ingredients, [00:38:00] um, in either your recipes or Hungarian cooking that are harder to find?

[00:38:05] Chris Spear: Maybe like if you're not in a place like New York City where we can get everything, I mean obviously you can get stuff on Amazon, but. Are there traditional Hungarian ingredients that are a little more challenging? 

[00:38:16] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, well, I mean, paprika, which is so readily available in any grocery store, um, And probably 

[00:38:25] Chris Spear: mediocre in many grocery stores.

[00:38:27] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, it's not really paprika. I mean, it is and it isn't. The stuff from a grocery store, I think what people don't really know is that Paprika has a very distinct flavor. Um, and it's this really robust, beautiful flavor and color. It's just like any other, unlike any other spice. And when you get high quality paprika, it really does make all the difference.

[00:38:51] Jeremy Salamon: And you're supposed to toast it for like 10 seconds, even it, even in its ground form. And a lot of people don't know that, um, and they use it as a, it kind of [00:39:00] falls to the wait side as this, uh, garnish on your mashed potatoes at Thanksgiving. 

[00:39:04] Chris Spear: Deviled eggs, just a little shake, right? That's what makes them deviled.

[00:39:08] Chris Spear: You just put a little paprika on there and it comes out as, if it's still in a metal can, it's too old. That McCormick metal tin, your grandmother's had that for 20 years. Throw that out. It's not good anymore. 

[00:39:19] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. Don't, don't risk it. So finding really good paprika is hard. Um, but burlap and barrel, which is a really great spice company.

[00:39:27] Jeremy Salamon: They, I think they've done a really terrific job at sourcing, um, uh, a sweet paprika that they call their noble paprika and then a hot paprika. And also, yeah, if you're, you can also buy it online, you know, like Colusteans, which is a big spice store in Manhattan, they have a website where that you can ship it.

[00:39:47] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. But other, I would say most Hungarian at. Ingredients are pretty readily available, mostly anywhere in America, other than like Hungarian salami, which is, [00:40:00] you need to go to Hungary to go get that. 

[00:40:02] Chris Spear: Oh, what's in Hungarian salami? 

[00:40:04] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. What's the, or what's 

[00:40:05] Chris Spear: the flavor profile like? 

[00:40:07] Jeremy Salamon: It's really fatty. It's like kind of greasy.

[00:40:10] Jeremy Salamon: Like when you cut into it, there's actually like, it looks like it's sweating, which I know is really gross, but it's so good. And the, like the, the fat cubes can be like really chunky. Um, and it's just, I don't know, there's something really special about it. It's just, it's so delicious. And there's one brand that's called PICK, P I C K, which was my grandmother's favorite.

[00:40:31] Jeremy Salamon: And they've been around for like a hundred years and they do have a version of it here in America. Uh, again, not the real version, uh, but if you're, if you go to Hungary, try and smuggle it back into the country, but don't, don't tell people that I told you to do that. 

[00:40:46] Chris Spear: Yeah. How I landed in a Hungarian prison, uh, that'll be, uh, one of my podcast episodes.

[00:40:52] Chris Spear: Not something 

[00:40:53] Jeremy Salamon: you want to experience, I'm sure. 

[00:40:54] Chris Spear: Do you recommend, is that, do you think that would be a fun place to go for people who are interested in traveling? Because I [00:41:00] don't think that that's one of those places that kind of pops up when you're thinking about traveling. Traveling. As someone who's been, like, would you recommend that, say, I go there if I like fun places and good food?

[00:41:10] Jeremy Salamon: Absolutely, yeah. Hungary is, is beautiful. It's also got, yeah, there's so much to eat, so many markets to explore. There's bathhouses, like, that are gorgeous, they're ornate, and there's so much, like, life and culture to just kind of, like, browse and see while you're at these bathhouses. Which is really interesting, and the coffee houses are grand, and you can go have a beautiful pastry, uh, like in the middle of the day with a cappuccino and read a book, but maybe what's even more exciting about Hungary Right now is it's wine scene and there's so many young Producers doing really cool things all on the like the borders of Hungary especially especially around like Lake Balaton Which is Hungary's largest lake [00:42:00] There's just a lot of cool like you can take day trips out to the vineyards and I think it's A part of Hungary that people, that tourists don't really even think to explore.

[00:42:09] Jeremy Salamon: So I would highly recommend that. 

[00:42:11] Chris Spear: Okay. I'm looking for a international trip in a year or so, and I'm not wanting to go to like one of those big major Rome, Paris, you know, kind of the. I'm looking for something that's a little off the beaten path and, and also very fun though. 

[00:42:27] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, and from Hungary, you could also go to, you could take like a day trip into Vienna and Austria.

[00:42:34] Jeremy Salamon: You could also take a day trip into Northern Italy. So Hungary is like a great jumping point for other great countries. 

[00:42:42] Chris Spear: Oh, great. I'll have to start, uh, getting my wife thinking about that. It'll take a little priming, 

maybe. 

[00:42:47] Chris Spear: Do you ever get bored of cooking the same type of food? You know, because you're in a place that has a very specific cuisine.

[00:42:56] Chris Spear: You know, I, I talk to a lot of chefs and a lot of them kind of, you [00:43:00] know, jump around and do different types of things. But I think when you're locked into one style, does that get old and do you have days where you're like, man, I just want to cook some Italian food, Mexican food, whatever. 

[00:43:11] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah, I definitely do.

[00:43:14] Jeremy Salamon: And I am, uh, I'm actually where I'm currently recording this podcast with you. I'm sitting in my new restaurant, which is definitely leaning away from the Eastern European narrative because I needed an outlet to explore my other Passions, uh, you know, in cuisine. So that's kind of fueling that at the moment and feeding that, but yeah, I mean, it's Eastern European food is, and Jewish food is definitely, it's a part of my blood and always will be, but I don't like putting myself in a box forever.

[00:43:49] Jeremy Salamon: So, and I feel like, you know, a lot of chefs probably have the same, the same thought. 

[00:43:54] Chris Spear: Yeah, I mean, I love what I do, especially being a personal chef, because it's different cuisines like almost every night [00:44:00] and some days I kind of do need like that box. Like when I ask people what they like when they say everything, then my mind is like, Oh, my God, like I don't even know where to start.

[00:44:08] Chris Spear: So it is nice when people will say I like these cuisines or something. But I don't know. I've always said, I don't know how, like people, I've been 10 years at this Italian place. I'm like, Oh, I can't imagine cooking Italian food for 50, 60 hours a week for 10 years. Like it just, I don't think I could do it.

[00:44:24] Jeremy Salamon: Yeah. Especially when you feel like you've exhausted kind of like every avenue, but the truth is, is that there's so much to explore with, I think with Eastern European cuisine and so much that has been untouched and I'm not the only chef that's doing something new with this. And there's. Yeah, there's so many new and inspiring things happening with it, which is, which is pretty cool.

[00:44:46] Chris Spear: Well, and being located where you are, in my opinion, probably weighs into it. Like how universally accepted do you think your restaurant would be? Like is, I'm sure Brooklyn and New York has helped. Do you see this as a restaurant that you could [00:45:00] easily have be successful in other places? 

[00:45:04] Jeremy Salamon: It's a great question.

[00:45:06] Jeremy Salamon: I've been told that Aggie's Counter would do well in London. Um, yeah, so we did a, we did a pop up there back in February with our friends at Cafe Deco and I had a lot of emails coming afterwards being like, you know, we're, we're missing kind of like this Eastern European, you know, restaurant here and it would be really great to have, like, because I also think that Augie's.

[00:45:33] Jeremy Salamon: Is in ways approachable like it takes things that you're kind of familiar with or things that are identifiable, but also is new and different. So it's it's this mashup of things that make it, I think, accessible even for the picky eaters or the. More hesitant to, to dine out, uh, and try things. So yeah, it depends.

[00:45:55] Jeremy Salamon: I mean, would an ice counter do really well in Boca Raton, Florida, where I grew [00:46:00] up, probably not, even though it's like, you know, you'd think all the old people would come and eat it, but, but things have changed so drastically over there. It's so much more, it's younger now, but it's a different kind of young than like a New York city young.

[00:46:13] Jeremy Salamon: So I don't know if that makes any sense to listeners, but it's. I think it would just, it would really depend. 

[00:46:19] Chris Spear: What have we not talked about that you want to share with our listeners today? 

[00:46:25] Jeremy Salamon: I mean, the cookbook comes out on September 17th, and you should get a copy. 

[00:46:32] Chris Spear: I love it. Well, I will. Link everything in the show notes, as I always do.

[00:46:36] Chris Spear: People will be able to easily find the book if they're not following you online. Um, I'll direct them to all of your social medias and they can check out said delicious looking food. 

[00:46:47] Jeremy Salamon: Fantastic. Well, thank you again for your time and for having me. 

[00:46:50] Chris Spear: Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for coming on the show. And, uh, to all of our listeners, this is Chris with Chefs Without Restaurants.

[00:46:56] Chris Spear: Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. You're still here? The [00:47:00] podcast's over! If you are indeed still here, thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place, and that's chefswithoutrestaurants. org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter. Get connected in our free Facebook group and join our personal chef, catering, and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads.

[00:47:20] Chris Spear: And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page, where you'll find products and services I love. You pay nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission, which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links.

[00:47:34] Chris Spear: As always, you can reach out to me on Instagram at chefswithoutrestaurants or send me an email at chefswithoutrestaurants at gmail. com. Thanks so much.